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Anti Tank Ditches and movement?
07-03-2020, 08:08 AM,
#1
Anti Tank Ditches and movement?
The Rules say:

"Anti-Tank Ditch Destruction and Bridging Any Engineer unit adjacent to an Anti-Tank Ditch may attempt to destroy it. The process and rules for this are the same as for Bridge Damage. The defense value of an Anti-Tank Ditch used in this process is 1. 

If an Anti-Tank Ditch is destroyed, then it no longer has any effect on movement. 

An Engineer unit capable of building bridges may build a bridge over an AntiTank Ditch. Again, the rules and procedure for this are the same as constructing a bridge over a river."

However that's not what I'm seeing when I try to move over a damaged ditch? Its taking Full movement to cross ditch which means you have to start adjacent? So I assume the game engine is correct and the rules are wrong?
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07-03-2020, 09:51 AM,
#2
RE: Anti Tank Ditches and movement?
(07-03-2020, 08:08 AM)Plain Ian Wrote: The Rules say:

"Anti-Tank Ditch Destruction and Bridging Any Engineer unit adjacent to an Anti-Tank Ditch may attempt to destroy it. The process and rules for this are the same as for Bridge Damage. The defense value of an Anti-Tank Ditch used in this process is 1. 

If an Anti-Tank Ditch is destroyed, then it no longer has any effect on movement. 

An Engineer unit capable of building bridges may build a bridge over an AntiTank Ditch. Again, the rules and procedure for this are the same as constructing a bridge over a river."

However that's not what I'm seeing when I try to move over a damaged ditch? Its taking Full movement to cross ditch which means you have to start adjacent? So I assume the game engine is correct and the rules are wrong?

Let me check this. I’ll almost guarantee it has no effect on movement if you are in travel mode. That maybe the missing item.

No matter what we will correct the manual if necessary.

David
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07-03-2020, 05:22 PM, (This post was last modified: 07-03-2020, 05:31 PM by ComradeP.)
#3
RE: Anti Tank Ditches and movement?
Based on tests in France '40 (Maginot Line AT ditch) and PB BoNA '41 (Tobruk AT ditch), it seems the game treats damaged AT ditch hexsides as Gully hexsides in terms of MP cost to cross them (9 for foot movement 6 clear+3 gully, 15 for tracked vehicles moving to clear terrain 6 clear+9 gully and 23 for hard halftrack vehicles 8 clear+15 gully) regardless of whether or not the units are in T-mode.

Though the manual isn't correct, using the gully movement rate makes sense if a damaged AT ditch represents engineers creating ramps, through demolitions or digging, on both sides of the ditch.
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07-03-2020, 11:15 PM,
#4
RE: Anti Tank Ditches and movement?
(07-03-2020, 05:22 PM)ComradeP Wrote: Based on tests in France '40 (Maginot Line AT ditch) and PB BoNA '41 (Tobruk AT ditch), it seems the game treats damaged AT ditch hexsides as Gully hexsides in terms of MP cost to cross them (9 for foot movement 6 clear+3 gully, 15 for tracked vehicles moving to clear terrain 6 clear+9 gully and 23 for hard halftrack vehicles 8 clear+15 gully) regardless of whether or not the units are in T-mode.

Though the manual isn't correct, using the gully movement rate makes sense if a damaged AT ditch represents engineers creating ramps, through demolitions or digging, on both sides of the ditch.

Hmm well that does sound reasonable. The only games I've come across ditches is Normandy 44 and they were on the beaches. 

I have ditches in Bulge 44. Brian has added them to his scenario #16-14 Wacht am Rhein (Herbstnebel) to slow down German movement. So what we have are primary/secondary roads in woods with Ditches and just to add spice OBSTACLES. The picture isn't very clear but here is the situation on the Dasburg-Marnach main road and at Germond.

[Image: 2020-07-03_13h56_46.png]

There are plenty Engineer/Pioneer units so blowing Ditches and clearing Obstacles isn't a problem. What I didn't expect was a big delay in movement.

But as you say there is a big HOLE in the road which has been quickly filled! Now I know why there are so many bridging units as well now. Guess I'll need them if I want to speed things up.
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