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MC Helo Units
06-29-2020, 03:12 AM,
#1
zicon 2  MC Helo Units
Gents:  Smoke7

Why are MC flying helo units able to block all enemy ground units from entering the helo's hex?  Idea2

Sure, if the enemy combat unit has enough MP's, it can "close assault" the flying helo - but that only results in the helo unit being displaced one hex with no damage. 

Help me understand how this mechanic translates into conditions on a modern battlefield? What is being simulated here?  Batman Confused
Regards, Mike / "A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week." - George S. Patton /
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06-29-2020, 05:25 AM,
#2
RE: MC Helo Units
I think it has more to do with the limitations of the engine, than with any sort of simulation of a specific trait.
Helos have this weird mish-mash of both airborne- and ground- traits, so it's no surprise that the implementation of them in a 'regular' game-engine is a little wonky at times.
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06-29-2020, 10:43 AM, (This post was last modified: 06-29-2020, 10:45 AM by tazaaron.)
#3
RE: MC Helo Units
From the book,

Flying helicopters can be assaulted, but the assault has no effect other
than to displace the helicopter from the defending hex. When the
helicopter has no valid retreat, then the assault has no effect.


Blocking Helicopter Elimination – when this rule is selected, flying
helicopters and non-man-carrying helicopters cannot block the retreat of
ground units which are retreating as a result of an assault. When this
happens, the helicopters are automatically eliminated. Note: the sole intent of
this rule is to prevent players from the "gamey" tactic of using helicopters to
surround and eliminate units by denying them the ability to retreat from assault

Special Helicopter Movement
Although normal movement is limited to movement to
an adjacent hex, there is a special helicopter
movement feature which allows flying helicopters to
move two hexes in a single action under certain
conditions. This movement feature allows flying
helicopters to move over and past enemy units that
would otherwise block their movement.
To be eligible for this special movement, the following conditions must be true:
• The hex being moved over must contain enemy units.
• The hex being moved into must not contain enemy units.
• The helicopter performing the special move must be flying and must have
at least 12 movement points remaining.
After making the move, the helicopter units are subject to Opportunity Fire from
enemy units and this fire is tripled from its normal effect.
To perform the special helicopter movement, select the helicopters units as
you would normally and then right click in the hex being moved into.

Helos have provided many issues, have to agree its not correct. Rules would have to change but how?

Just having them get pushed out of the way or being able to move under them would probably be good enough but not perfect

Maybe have them automatically return to there HQ when out of movement points, this gets them out of the way completely kind of like a one-time unit but dont know if thats in the realm of the game engine
Rangers Lead the Way
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06-29-2020, 11:23 PM,
#4
RE: MC Helo Units
It would help a lot if helos could not fly all day. They can fly out, combat or recon and then fly back. You have so many turns to do that, then you land. If forced to land, they are stuck there until a supply unit for helos shows up. If an enemy unit shows up, they automatically get eliminated.
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06-30-2020, 12:51 AM,
#5
RE: MC Helo Units
Alternatively, you could treat them like some sort of long-range Deception-units, capable of delivering helo-strikes or air-landed troops within some set radius of their HQ.
And just like Patrolling negates the effect of Deception units, AA units could prohibit the landing of airborne troops.

But again, we're talking a major rewrite of the source-code here, so I'm not holding my breath. :)
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06-30-2020, 01:08 AM,
#6
RE: MC Helo Units
I thought about using them as you use AC in conducting airstrikes but the issue is they can attack anywhere on map, if only it could be limited to the units that are spotted under it's HQs command.
Rangers Lead the Way
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06-30-2020, 03:06 AM,
#7
RE: MC Helo Units
(06-30-2020, 01:08 AM)tazaaron Wrote: I thought about using them as you use AC in conducting airstrikes but the issue is they can attack anywhere on map, if only it could be limited to the units that are spotted under it's HQs command.

It can be. You just put them under the applicable org in the OOB. We do that for Soviet airgroups in PzC.

David
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06-30-2020, 03:16 AM,
#8
RE: MC Helo Units
Lol, ya. I have AV-8Bs under the Marine brigade. Just a big change, kind of scary. Hehe.
Rangers Lead the Way
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07-02-2020, 09:47 PM,
#9
RE: MC Helo Units
Hi -

I think some good suggestions on helos, especially the idea of making them into airstrikes that are attached to a particular organization.

That would also address the issue in Bolt from the Blue with Warsaw Pact helos able to rampage nearly unchecked. A good Pact player who understands the NATO OOB will know which NATO formations lack significant anti-air capability (the SAM vehicles are the only real threat, at least until the fixed batteries unfix, as the 2 hex anti-air vehicles are easily destroyed if they show themselves). Then all the Pact has to do is form their Hinds into stacks and melt any NATO MBT which shows itself. Meanwhile, Pact artillery takes care of any soft units. Once the 10-hex range NATO anti-air SAM vehicles are destroyed (not that hard to do since there are so few) then NATO is completely helpless.

I think RL doctrine behind the lack of NATO anti-Hind capability was that NATO air superiority would make the battlefield an impermissive environment for Pact helos. However, in the game, air interdiction doesn't affect helo units.

If you make them air-groups, that changes.

Some may feel this would gimp attack helos too much. It's a judgment call. I happen to think a modern battlefield would make attack helos much less effective, as there are just too many threats. But your mileage may vary.
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07-02-2020, 11:20 PM,
#10
RE: MC Helo Units
I mentioned many years ago about revamping the air game. Make an Air map and bases with aircraft assignments. The area is then split into zones for air assignments such as Air Superiority, Ground Attack, Recon, Interdiction and anything else one can think of. Each turn you assign available air units to different zones and different missions, limited by range, if any. The range would affect PzCs a lot more than MCs.
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