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Market - Garden '44 Possibility of Victory?
05-10-2020, 08:20 AM,
#1
Market - Garden '44 Possibility of Victory?
Is it possible to win any of the Market - Garden Scenarios as the Allies? I know historically they lost, but is there even the slimmest possibility of success? I ask because it really seems like it's not possible to, at least not in the individual sector campaigns for the paratroopers. I've tried my hand at all of them and I've noticed the following:

1) Arnhem 1st AB "Red Devils", the full Arnhem campaign. No matter what I do, the Germans are able to position the Kraft Battalion to completely shut down any advance on the Bridge. Now I'm aware, yes, they slowed most of the paras trying to enter Arnhem, but Frost and his battalion along with other forces were able to slip through and seize the bridge. No matter what I do, because you can't go around the ZOC, by the time I've weaved through by going into the forests around Osterbek, all the SS troops and Armour are firmly around Arnhem bridge, and a breakthrough doesn't seem possible there. 

2) In both American scenarios, it seems like every bridge wants to explode. Is it randomly chosen if they are detonated or not? I noticed that when I made the attempt on the bridge at Nijmegen, it didn't explode, and I was able to capture the bridge at Grave intact. However, literally every other bridge on the map blew up. 30 Corps arrives with engineers, so I can rebuild them, but with the 101st at Eindhoven, it seems to be impossible to get guys across the river with all the bridges exploded, so how am I supposed to take Eindhoven like what happened historically? 

If it's randomly chosen if the bridges blow or not, fine I'm okay with blaming misfortune but if not, how the heck do you win these campaigns as the allies? I had a minor victory at Nijmegen slip from my fingers because I couldn't dislodge an HQ company. If I had the 504th in Nijmegan I could have forced the bridge I swear!
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05-10-2020, 02:58 PM,
#2
RE: Market - Garden '44 Possibility of Victory?
Bridges blow randomly. I believe it is an 80% chance per the PDT - but it has been quite a few years. Just take a look in game to see the chances.

Arnhem, again from memory, I thought the paras could get a couple of units to the bridge, possibly, through T mode and maybe a lucky assault??? I know I could get a small force there at times, but they got crushed quite quickly.

Eindhoven, I thought there was a way there, maybe a bridge not wired? But again, after this long hard to remember.

Sorry not much help, I don't have the game installed currently.

Regards
Rick
[Image: exercise.png]
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05-10-2020, 07:46 PM,
#3
RE: Market - Garden '44 Possibility of Victory?
(05-10-2020, 08:20 AM)MechaMaestro Wrote: 1) Arnhem 1st AB "Red Devils", the full Arnhem campaign. No matter what I do, the Germans are able to position the Kraft Battalion to completely shut down any advance on the Bridge. Now I'm aware, yes, they slowed most of the paras trying to enter Arnhem, but Frost and his battalion along with other forces were able to slip through and seize the bridge. No matter what I do, because you can't go around the ZOC, by the time I've weaved through by going into the forests around Osterbek, all the SS troops and Armour are firmly around Arnhem bridge, and a breakthrough doesn't seem possible there. 

I worked with Ed Williams on his _Alt version of the MG44 campaign to solve this very issue, I moved the various Kraft battalion units around and slightly changed the landing locations so that a portion of the British airborne troops could reach the Arnhem bridge via the route along the rivers edge without releasing the various fixed German units in the area.

Unfortunately like Rick I don't have MG44 on my present PC to go into more detail, but maybe you could fire up the _Alt version of the campaign and only play the Arnhem area to see if you can replicate my results?  Wink
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05-10-2020, 08:23 PM,
#4
RE: Market - Garden '44 Possibility of Victory?
Me and MikeC are going to play the "Two Days at Arnhem", Alt version; will tell you if Frost can get to the bridge.
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05-10-2020, 08:43 PM,
#5
RE: Market - Garden '44 Possibility of Victory?
I'm on turn 47 odd of the 72 turn campaign (can't remember exactly which one, perhaps the Alt version) in a PBEM game. I managed to get the paratroopers to the hex adjacent to the 1500 victory hex, but couldn't get on the bridge itself. But I have been able to hold that position all game. Armor and artillery from 30 Corps is crossing at Njimegen at the moment and I hope to start the assault on Arnhem soon. That said, even with the 1500 VP it will still only be an Allied minor victory (if I can take it of course).
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05-10-2020, 10:44 PM,
#6
RE: Market - Garden '44 Possibility of Victory?
Thanks for the replies everyone! Good to know it's not an exercise in futility!
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05-10-2020, 11:14 PM,
#7
RE: Market - Garden '44 Possibility of Victory?
As with all games the quality of your opponent makes a HUGE difference in how a game can play out.
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06-02-2020, 01:14 PM,
#8
RE: Market - Garden '44 Possibility of Victory?
(05-10-2020, 10:44 PM)MechaMaestro Wrote: Thanks for the replies everyone! Good to know it's not an exercise in futility!

Mecha,

I have the game, not played a single scenario.  Old time gamer but I've only been playing my brother for the last few years.  I used to belong to the ACWG club, did quite well on the old talonsoft games.

I am not "that" familiar with Panzer Campaigns but I have played Tobruk a bit; and am doing well as the Germans in Sicily, about 159 turns in.  I've done scenarios with some of the other titles such as Normandy but that was years ago.

I'd be willing to take the Germans in a campaign game, and as some here have suggested with the volcano man alt version.  I never played Highway to the Reich but watched some friends play a turn or two back in the day :)

We have to agree to the optional rules; but I'll go with most or all of the suggested ones that are listed here.

Not interested in scenarios - this one looks like something to be enjoyed without any teaser tastes first.


Let me know if you are interested.
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06-02-2020, 11:49 PM,
#9
RE: Market - Garden '44 Possibility of Victory?
(06-02-2020, 01:14 PM)tobruck41 Wrote:
(05-10-2020, 10:44 PM)MechaMaestro Wrote: Thanks for the replies everyone! Good to know it's not an exercise in futility!

Mecha,

I have the game, not played a single scenario.  Old time gamer but I've only been playing my brother for the last few years.  I used to belong to the ACWG club, did quite well on the old talonsoft games.

I am not "that" familiar with Panzer Campaigns but I have played Tobruk a bit; and am doing well as the Germans in Sicily, about 159 turns in.  I've done scenarios with some of the other titles such as Normandy but that was years ago.

I'd be willing to take the Germans in a campaign game, and as some here have suggested with the volcano man alt version.  I never played Highway to the Reich but watched some friends play a turn or two back in the day :)

We have to agree to the optional rules; but I'll go with most or all of the suggested ones that are listed here.

Not interested in scenarios - this one looks like something to be enjoyed without any teaser tastes first.


Let me know if you are interested.


I'll accept your challenge if Mecha isn't up for it.   Alt version with his Optional rules for his Alt scenarios.
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06-03-2020, 05:59 AM,
#10
RE: Market - Garden '44 Possibility of Victory?
It would be great if you let me know if the alterations we made to the British Airborne troops in the _alt version play out in your game i.e. can you get a sizable force to at least occupy the northern end of the bridge by using the route along the river bank?
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