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Seeking Japanese Opponent for Japan 46' Operation Coronet - CLOSED
11-03-2019, 04:24 AM, (This post was last modified: 11-03-2019, 09:28 AM by Elxaime.)
#1
Seeking Japanese Opponent for Japan 46' Operation Coronet - CLOSED
Looking for someone willing to take the Japanese side in the big scenario, Operation Coronet (#46_0301_01: Operation Coronet).  I am playing Japan in another game of this, so would like to try Allied.  Default optional rules.  We'd use a (very) slightly modified scenario file to fix the single mistake of placing an obstacle, instead of a bunker, on one of the Japanese east beach defense hexes (I can email the modified scenario file we'd use).  This is a long scenario (608 turns) but in my experience the turns go pretty fast due to the somewhat static nature of the fighting and the less numerous units at the beginning during the landings.  But so far it seems like a lot of fun.  The Allies have complete air and naval supremacy, but the terrain (outside the plains and fields) can be tough and Japan has tough infantry and decent artillery.  I can do quick turns, understanding that breaks, e.g. for holidays, will be inevitable.

Let me know!

EDIT:  Opponent found...thanks!
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03-11-2020, 10:03 PM, (This post was last modified: 03-11-2020, 11:59 PM by Kool Kat.)
#2
RE: Seeking Japanese Opponent for Japan 46' Operation Coronet - CLOSED
(11-03-2019, 04:24 AM)Elxaime Wrote: Looking for someone willing to take the Japanese side in the big scenario, Operation Coronet (#46_0301_01: Operation Coronet).  I am playing Japan in another game of this, so would like to try Allied.  Default optional rules.  We'd use a (very) slightly modified scenario file to fix the single mistake of placing an obstacle, instead of a bunker, on one of the Japanese east beach defense hexes (I can email the modified scenario file we'd use).  This is a long scenario (608 turns) but in my experience the turns go pretty fast due to the somewhat static nature of the fighting and the less numerous units at the beginning during the landings.  But so far it seems like a lot of fun.  The Allies have complete air and naval supremacy, but the terrain (outside the plains and fields) can be tough and Japan has tough infantry and decent artillery.  I can do quick turns, understanding that breaks, e.g. for holidays, will be inevitable.

Let me know!

EDIT:  Opponent found...thanks!

Gent: Smoke7

Congratulations on completing this 608 turn Grand Campaign scenario in a little over four months!  Big Grin

http://www.theblitz.org/scenarios/pzc-23...o&id=13151

How did you do it?  Idea2

You and your opponent must have come to the conclusion, fairly soon after getting into the game, that a "Draw" was the most likely outcome... and decided to stop - yes?

How many turns did you actually complete?  Wink

Comments on game balance and game play?
Regards, Mike / "A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week." - George S. Patton /
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03-11-2020, 11:57 PM,
#3
RE: Seeking Japanese Opponent for Japan 46' Operation Coronet - CLOSED
We finished 27 turns and then decided that it was too big of a scenario to continue. The western beaches were having a harder time expanding than the eastern beaches. The Japanese seem to be too weak  in general and the Marines seem to be too strong. 
I reported the game and felt that we should get some-kind of points for the time and effort we put in so I decided that a draw was the proper course. Should the moderators feel that the game should not have been reported and choose to delete the result than I understand.
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03-12-2020, 12:02 AM,
#4
RE: Seeking Japanese Opponent for Japan 46' Operation Coronet - CLOSED
(03-11-2020, 11:57 PM)Bioman Wrote: We finished 27 turns and then decided that it was too big of a scenario to continue. The western beaches were having a harder time expanding than the eastern beaches. The Japanese seem to be too weak  in general and the Marines seem to be too strong. 
I reported the game and felt that we should get some-kind of points for the time and effort we put in so I decided that a draw was the proper course. Should the moderators feel that the game should not have been reported and choose to delete the result than I understand.

Gent:  Smoke7

I see. Most likely, this grand campaign scenario was not play tested by the designers... and therefore nobody really knew much about game balance or play until players actually sat down and attempted it!  Smile
Regards, Mike / "A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week." - George S. Patton /
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03-12-2020, 02:53 AM,
#5
RE: Seeking Japanese Opponent for Japan 46' Operation Coronet - CLOSED
Of interest guys, there is a patch being prepared for both games in the Japan series.

We found some discrepancies in the PDT files and also took onboard some sage advice from Ed ‘Volcanoman’ Williams. I expect that some of the things called out here such as weak Japanese and over strong marines have been mitigated to a large extent. With this being a new theatre we continue to review all the scenarios to make certain they play as expected and I expect we will tweak them for awhile. One reason for this is that we had mixed reports on the new fanatical nation rule, with a belief that it was making the Japanese too strong. We’ve now moved away from that position.

Do yourself a favour, try some of these scenarios again once we have the upcoming patch out.

Finally, the first iteration of the updated PzC documentation will be included. At a minimum, this will include new User, PzC and Scenario editor manuals. These will be living documents and we will be setting up links on the Tiller website so that the latest documents are always available for download. We will be inviting feedback and areas for updates once the revised versions are available.

Thanks,

David
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03-12-2020, 04:22 AM, (This post was last modified: 03-12-2020, 04:24 AM by ComradeP.)
#6
RE: Seeking Japanese Opponent for Japan 46' Operation Coronet - CLOSED
I don't think the Japanese are too weak in either Coronet or Olympic, there's just a large difference between the scenarios in terms of units available and Allied firepower: air and naval support is more numerous in Coronet and the beaches are generally more weakly held in terms of both immediate reserves and Japanese troop quality.

What makes Olympic difficult for the Allies is the great Japanese troop quality of units that have never faced a modern army before. A bit more B quality units (fewer A's in Olympic and more B's in Coronet) in both scenarios might help.

Given the fairly short distance to Tokyo from the landing beaches, the lack of echeloned reserves like in Olympic and the mediocre quality (in terms of stats and actual quality levels) of the Japanese forces, it's understandable that Coronet feels like the Japanese could use a boost.

However, many Japanese units already receive bonuses to Speed, Assault and Defense ratings compared to non-USMC Allied units.

The Gold releases would've been a good time for standardization of unit strengths and composition between all PzC titles, but that might've interfered with play balance. In the case of Japan '45 and Japan '46, the Allied OOB takes a step back as Allied infantry battalions have no heavy weapons company, or a fourth component unit like German units in recent titles. The Japanese OOB is seemingly fully represented. Larger US infantry battalions would be very nice to have in both titles.

I personally think the fanatical nations rule can indeed unbalance the game, given the right conditions. It's very time consuming to remove Japanese units from bunkers, also because smaller units take fewer casualties with the default optional rules in Olympic, and it might simply be impossible if they can reinforce the bunker positions. Even with a bunker probability of 1.5%, given time a pile of engineers can still create a fortified line with relative ease.
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03-12-2020, 10:17 PM, (This post was last modified: 03-12-2020, 10:35 PM by Kool Kat.)
#7
RE: Seeking Japanese Opponent for Japan 46' Operation Coronet - CLOSED
(03-12-2020, 02:53 AM)Strela Wrote: Of interest guys, there is a patch being prepared for both games in the Japan series.

We found some discrepancies in the PDT files and also took onboard some sage advice from Ed ‘Volcanoman’ Williams.

David

Hi David:  Smoke7

While you are collecting sage advice from Ed, ask him how he is coming along with play testing the Malta scenario.

0622_01 Operation Herkules_Alt (30-Turns)


Ed stated back in July 2019 that he was halfway through play testing it. I recall there were some issues with how he was interpreting hard attack factors versus bunkers and the overall play balance of the scenario. 

I posted a reminder to him in the thread back in August 2019... but he must not have seen it? Idea2

Hopefully he will get back to us shortly on his play testing results and how he will update the Malta scenario with "a couple of minor adjustments." Thanks!  Big Grin  

I copied and pasted Ed's comments below + provided the thread URL for reference. 


http://www.theblitz.org/message_boards/s...ight=malta


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7/12/2019
RE: Operation Herkules_Alt scenario - Please remove from game database

Good news is that, out of curiosity, I have started to play the scenario here and there solitaire again. I am exactly at the halfway point (turn 15 of 30). Italians just took Luca Airfield, and the Brits are collapsing now since they can't really defend without being shot to pieces by larger units. My guess is that their only option will be to gradually fall back to the bunkers, where they won't all fit (thousands of men all over the island here), thereby resulting in large losses.

We will see how it goes, but my airborne did take heavy losses in the landing and we will see if those lost VP casualties can be made up for in the second half (its a long way to go). Either way, I do see a couple of minor adjustments that can be made to the _Alt scenario though, so that it good.

More info later when it is complete. 


_________________________________________

Also, if this post is not appropriate for this thread, I am more then happy to start a separate thread. Moderators - let me know. 
Regards, Mike / "A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week." - George S. Patton /
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