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New Campaign Game for Rzhev '42 Gold
11-13-2019, 08:51 PM,
#21
RE: New Campaign Game for Rzhev '42 Gold
(11-13-2019, 01:33 PM)Strela Wrote: Hi there,

Re 78th Infanterie Divisions, it is definitely GR.14

My go to source for German Infantry Division layouts confirms it here; http://www.diedeutschewehrmacht.de/78%20inf%20div.htm

Translated to English it mentions; 

The Inf.Reg.238 is dissolved on 11.11.1941 and by the Inf.Reg.14 I.-III.Btl. replaced, from 10.12.1941 without III., The Div. becomes on the 01/01/1943 the Sturm Div. reclassified.

So it definitely had the 14th Regt from November '41 and my notes from Moscow '42 mentions that the III Battalion was disbanded on Dec 9th, 1941.

I'd double check the attachment of 141st regiment as I can't find any reference to this regiment online beyond the First World War.

David

Thanks for clarifying that, David. And thanks for the link. I see you provided a link to that site in your Moscow '42 Notes, but I don't recall ever using it before. It looks very complete so I suspect there is a good reason the 141st Regiment is not mentioned. No matter - at least we know it was not attached to the 78 Inf Div.

John
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11-13-2019, 09:39 PM,
#22
RE: New Campaign Game for Rzhev '42 Gold
(11-13-2019, 01:33 PM)Strela Wrote: Hi there,

Re 78th Infanterie Divisions, it is definitely GR.14

My go to source for German Infantry Division layouts confirms it here; http://www.diedeutschewehrmacht.de/78%20inf%20div.htm

Translated to English it mentions; 

The Inf.Reg.238 is dissolved on 11.11.1941 and by the Inf.Reg.14 I.-III.Btl. replaced, from 10.12.1941 without III., The Div. becomes on the 01/01/1943 the Sturm Div. reclassified.

So it definitely had the 14th Regt from November '41 and my notes from Moscow '42 mentions that the III Battalion was disbanded on Dec 9th, 1941.

I'd double check the attachment of 141st regiment as I can't find any reference to this regiment online beyond the First World War.

David

That's clarifying.
Maybe when I was translating from winter battle german website I did read Inf.Reg.14 I as Inf.Reg.141 and assumed they were the reinforcements sent to replenish the division after summer battles.
As I said earlier I don't have all my sources here but seems likely.

I will change it (and Primary movement). Budapest is taking a lot of time but those changes are quite minor and should be done quickly.

César
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11-14-2019, 02:42 AM,
#23
RE: New Campaign Game for Rzhev '42 Gold
(11-13-2019, 09:39 PM)Indragnir Wrote:
(11-13-2019, 01:33 PM)Strela Wrote: Hi there,

Re 78th Infanterie Divisions, it is definitely GR.14

My go to source for German Infantry Division layouts confirms it here; http://www.diedeutschewehrmacht.de/78%20inf%20div.htm

Translated to English it mentions; 

The Inf.Reg.238 is dissolved on 11.11.1941 and by the Inf.Reg.14 I.-III.Btl. replaced, from 10.12.1941 without III., The Div. becomes on the 01/01/1943 the Sturm Div. reclassified.

So it definitely had the 14th Regt from November '41 and my notes from Moscow '42 mentions that the III Battalion was disbanded on Dec 9th, 1941.

I'd double check the attachment of 141st regiment as I can't find any reference to this regiment online beyond the First World War.

David

That's clarifying.
Maybe when I was translating from winter battle german website I did read Inf.Reg.14 I as Inf.Reg.141 and assumed they were the reinforcements sent to replenish the division after summer battles.
As I said earlier I don't have all my sources here but seems likely.

I will change it (and Primary movement). Budapest is taking a lot of time but those changes are quite minor and should be done quickly.

César

Cesar,

If you look in the notes published with the game I had found a listing of units in 9. AOK for 11/25/42 in the NARA Archives. This listing goes down to regiment/battalion and was used to create the German OOB. That is about as accurate as you can get. I would have to dig up and find all my docs (I just recently moved and stuff is still packed away) but I had taken a trip to the archives and at that time printed out over 100 pages from the various Armee/Korps and Division files.

Michael
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11-14-2019, 03:28 AM, (This post was last modified: 11-14-2019, 06:11 AM by Indragnir.)
#24
RE: New Campaign Game for Rzhev '42 Gold
Edit: Look for attached file below.

Primary and Secondary (and Trails if any) movement cost increased for mobile formations and slightly raised for foot infantry. No change to Horse nor Ski. Some adjustment to Frozen movement cost and Clear for Tracked.
78th ID listing G.R.14 now.
Notes now reflects the changes to movement costs.

Bests.
César
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11-14-2019, 03:36 AM, (This post was last modified: 11-14-2019, 03:38 AM by Indragnir.)
#25
RE: New Campaign Game for Rzhev '42 Gold
(11-14-2019, 02:42 AM)rzhev42 Wrote: Cesar,
If you look in the notes published with the game I had found a listing of units in 9. AOK for 11/25/42 in the NARA Archives. This listing goes down to regiment/battalion and was used to create the German OOB. That is about as accurate as you can get. I would have to dig up and find all my docs (I just recently moved and stuff is still packed away) but I had taken a trip to the archives and at that time printed out over 100 pages from the various Armee/Korps and Division files.

Michael

I think above Regiment level I didn't found any new info. IIRC almost all I've found were ToE, relative strength, weapon types and various assets like companies attached to divisional level.
Kudos to those who can read and decipher 100 pages from NARA ;)  One page just gives me a headache.
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11-14-2019, 05:49 AM,
#26
RE: New Campaign Game for Rzhev '42 Gold
Hi César,

As I understand it, it is only the Primary Roads that are exempt from Ground Conditions. So Secondary Roads (and Trails if there were any) are already at least doubled (except for Ski/Horse). Doubling them again makes them more difficult to use than Clear terrain.

For example, in Snow Conditions, your new values give modified movement costs of;

                     Motorized (x2.5)    Tracked (x2)

Clear                      30                      12    
Field                     150                      50
Secondary              35                       20
Primary                   9                         8

So I think, either the Secondary movement cost should be changed back to something similar to the values you had previously or the cost for Clear terrain needs to be increased. The Clear values do seem a bit low when compared to terrain such as Fields but I am sure there was careful thought put into all these values so it is probably best not to touch them.

John
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11-14-2019, 06:09 AM,
#27
RE: New Campaign Game for Rzhev '42 Gold
(11-14-2019, 05:49 AM)Green Wrote: Hi César,

As I understand it, it is only the Primary Roads that are exempt from Ground Conditions. So Secondary Roads (and Trails if there were any) are already at least doubled (except for Ski/Horse). Doubling them again makes them more difficult to use than Clear terrain.

For example, in Snow Conditions, your new values give modified movement costs of;

                     Motorized (x2.5)    Tracked (x2)

Clear                      30                      12    
Field                     150                      50
Secondary              35                       20
Primary                   9                         8

So I think, either the Secondary movement cost should be changed back to something similar to the values you had previously or the cost for Clear terrain needs to be increased. The Clear values do seem a bit low when compared to terrain such as Fields but I am sure there was careful thought put into all these values so it is probably best not to touch them.

John

You learn something new every day.
Thank you. I never touched Secondary nor Trails until today. What I've learned today will help me in Budapest also.
Now secondary under Snow should cost less MP than Clear under Snow. Also Clear for Tracked went to 7 from 6.

I deleted old zip.
Use this one at this post.

Bests
César


Attached Files
.zip   Rzhev.zip (Size: 174.41 KB / Downloads: 4)
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11-14-2019, 06:20 AM,
#28
RE: New Campaign Game for Rzhev '42 Gold
(11-14-2019, 06:09 AM)Indragnir Wrote: You learn something new every day.
Thank you. I never touched Secondary nor Trails until today. What I've learned today will help me in Budapest also.
Now secondary under Snow should cost less MP than Clear under Snow. Also Clear for Tracked went to 7 from 6.

I deleted old zip.
Use this one at this post.

Bests
César

That is what I call fast service! Many thanks César.

John
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