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Adjusted Fire Value For Panzer Campains
08-10-2018, 10:59 AM,
#1
ahelp  Adjusted Fire Value For Panzer Campains
So I am trying to figure out some of the behind the scenes stuff and I am having trouble finding out exactly how the process goes for determining adjusted fire value so I can calculate the low combat value and high combat value.

We have a 400 men Russian rifle brigade (the 1/56th Rifle Brigade) they have a moral of D and fatigue level of 0. Their soft fire attack value is 5 and a range of 1.

They are firing into an adjacent hex with 2 German units in a victory point hex that is rubble (it was village until my artillery got involved). The defense value of the German units are 16.

So how does the -20% value for the rubble effect things... goes it give the attacker -20% value?

How does the defensive of the unit effect the attack?

Below is my calculations for what I think.... with a fire low attack of 10 and a fire high attack of 50 you should end up with between 1.2 and 4.2 losses... but I am looking to refine how this process is done...

Below is my outline... please update as needed to help... Thanks in advance.

Basic Attack Strength = 1 gun/vehicle or 10 men
400 men / 10 = 40 (strength)  * (Attack Value) 5 = 200
Minus 20% rubble terrain
Minus 20% for D class unit
Equals -40%
Total Combat Value of attack = 200CV - 40% =120 total value
Total is 12% of the 1000

Combat Losses (per 1000 combat value):
    Fire Low Value: 10          Fire High Value: 50
    Attacker Low Value: 40     Attacker High Value: 200
    Defender Low Value: 20     Defender High Value: 100
1000 CV = low 10 High 50
12% of Fire Low Value = 1.2
12% of Fire High Value = 4.2
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08-10-2018, 01:54 PM,
#2
RE: Adjusted Fire Value For Panzer Campains
So we had a very lengthy discussion and effort made around determining how the values are built for combat calcs, which I just reviewed to see if there was an easy answer. However, there isn't a complete easy answer. I will say you are basically on track overall, I don't follow all of your numbers so that lack of context hurts a bit. But short answer, I have no answer, sorry.
[Image: exercise.png]
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08-10-2018, 11:31 PM,
#3
RE: Adjusted Fire Value For Panzer Campains
(08-10-2018, 01:54 PM)Ricky B Wrote: So we had a very lengthy discussion and effort made around determining how the values are built for combat calcs, which I just reviewed to see if there was an easy answer. However, there isn't a complete easy answer. I will say you are basically on track overall, I don't follow all of your numbers so that lack of context hurts a bit. But short answer, I have no answer, sorry.

Hey thanks for your reply....

Do you have a link to this lengthy discussion because I might like to look at it and review and read over this to help me understand the combat calculations. Or any other link that you think might help me... There really isn't detailed information about this and the rule book isn't clear and doesn't go into details... so any help would be appreciated.
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08-11-2018, 02:32 PM,
#4
RE: Adjusted Fire Value For Panzer Campains
It was by email, among John Tiller and a group of us. Even JT couldn't provide a simple answer but he was able to confirm a summary of some factors. I will see if I can pull out some key pieces for you, but not tonight, heading to bed shortly.

Rick
[Image: exercise.png]
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08-12-2018, 12:56 AM,
#5
RE: Adjusted Fire Value For Panzer Campains
(08-11-2018, 02:32 PM)Ricky B Wrote: It was by email, among John Tiller and a group of us. Even JT couldn't provide a simple answer but he was able to confirm a summary of some factors. I will see if I can pull out some key pieces for you, but not tonight, heading to bed shortly.

Rick

That would be super cool... thanks. Just trying to get as much info as I can. Great help.
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08-12-2018, 02:46 PM, (This post was last modified: 08-12-2018, 02:46 PM by Ricky B.)
#6
RE: Adjusted Fire Value For Panzer Campains
Okay, so here are some pieces. Do with it what you can or want, lol. I said at the time of figuring parts out that my head hurt after wading through things. Big take away is that what displays in the dialog for combat is only partially presented, lots of details are missing, misleading or incorrect these days.

First, a derived formula for one part, for vehicles.

If HA>Def, CF=sqrt(HA/Def)*10*# of vehicles
If HA<Def, CF=(HA/Def)squared*10*# of vehicles

Where HA is the firing unit hard attack rating, Def is the defender defense rating. The final result, including numbers firing times the values found above, are then rounded down/truncated. Range attenuation is also applied, not really applicable in PzC - our discussion was around PzB but I believe the calcs are basically the same, along with gaps in what is displayed.

So an example from PzB, at 1 hex range, 1 tank of each time firing:
HA>Def
Tiger vs Sherman: 32/13/1.5689290811=1.56892908*10=15.689 rounded down to 15 (or for 4 rounds down to 62!!)
Tiger vs Stuart: 32/7/2.1380899353=2.13807987*10=21.381 rounded down to 21 (or for 4 rounds down to 85) This matches what I see for Stuarts also!

HA<Def
Sherman vs Tiger: 18/24*18/24=.5625*10=5.625 rounded down to 5 (or for 5 rounds down to 28).
Stuart vs Tiger: 7/24*7/24=.140625*10=1.40625 rounded down to 1 which matches what I see in the game.

That is about all I have that is useful, from our emails. I think you hit a number of the other factors already, correctly.

Rick
[Image: exercise.png]
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08-13-2018, 12:41 AM,
#7
RE: Adjusted Fire Value For Panzer Campains
Thanks for your work and help... that is interesting and should help me.... much appreciated. Take care.
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