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vulnerability of armored cars
11-16-2017, 12:50 AM,
#1
vulnerability of armored cars
I just had a question regarding the armor on light armored vehicles and halftracks.  I played a scenario yesterday "A deadly squeeze"  I played as the U.S.  I advanced across an open area in an armored halftrack platoon.  My platoon ran into an armored force of Germans also in halftracks and they were supported by a Puma.  The Puma opened up at 9 hexes away(360yards) this resulted in no hits.  I unloaded my troops and fired back with only small arms and we killed the Puma at 360 yards with the .30 cal on the halftrack.  As the fight went on I was able to kill six(6) more enemy halftracks or armored cars with light infantry fire or form .30 cal fire from my halftracks all at 200 yards or more.  This really makes no sense to me.    

     Logan
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11-17-2017, 06:25 AM,
#2
RE: vulnerability of armored cars
And yet I recently fired with a 75mm AT gun (verified in AP vehicle mode) well within the half-range at a halftrack and got nothing with three shots! Go figure!
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11-17-2017, 11:00 AM,
#3
RE: vulnerability of armored cars
(11-17-2017, 06:25 AM)Stejones82 Wrote: And yet I recently fired with a 75mm AT gun (verified in AP vehicle mode) well within the half-range at a halftrack and got nothing with three shots!  Go figure!

I dont waste ammo on halftracks and such with AT guns and tanks.....Just hit them with small arms and they seem to die very easy.
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11-17-2017, 12:13 PM, (This post was last modified: 11-17-2017, 12:17 PM by Richie61.)
#4
RE: vulnerability of armored cars
The armor on a US half track is only 1/4" to 1/2" of 90 degree steel plate.

The German Sd.Kfz. 251 is 0.24" to 0.57" thick. Puma was .35" to 1.18" armor.

A fresh non-degraded shot with a good cyber die roll will do it.

1942 US 30-06 “30 CAL M2 AP” ammo.


Quote:AR500 Plate 0.319 inches
Mild Steel  1.000 inches
Concrete  3.392 inches
Timber  15.215 inches
8mm Mauser

Quote:Dry Pine - 85cm at 100m
Steel Plating - 5mm at 100m
Iron Plating - 10mm at 300m

I have a M1A 7.62x51 and a 1939 K98 Mauser and they rip thru a tree and most 1/4" steel plate like paper.
"Ideals are peaceful. History is violent."
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11-17-2017, 01:54 PM,
#5
RE: vulnerability of armored cars
The Puma and some of the other vehicles died outside of the 30-06 max Ap range witch was around 200 yards depending on if the target had hardened steel or not. I understand Light armored getting killed at under 200 yards but I question a kill of the Puma at almost 400 yards. This was not a solitary incident and happens a lot. I am not saying small arms cannot kill light armored but at the ranges I keep seeing them die is pretty amazingly lucky every game.
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11-18-2017, 11:09 AM, (This post was last modified: 11-18-2017, 11:10 AM by Richie61.)
#6
RE: vulnerability of armored cars
I've played 1600 PBEM SB games and I have seen it all. Good and bad die rolls.

I can tell you that SB doesn't handle armor well at times. The data in SB isn't 100% correct and side/ top/ flank armor is based on a % of the front armor. You can't built a "real" Tiger I tank in SB. Some one like Jeff can tell you more of how SB figures armor than I can.

The Puma has an 8 for armor and the US M3 1/2 track is an 8 for armor. PzKw VI E Tiger I is an 80 armor in SB.
The BAR has a penetration number of 8.


Quote:Small Arms Penetration
----------------------
Shotgun                                            4mm
Submachine gun                               4-5mm
Rifle                                                  5-6mm
Light machine gun (30 cal)               9mm
Heavy machine gun (50 cal)             12mm


You need to factor in data like:

Quote:L * S * E
Where L is the Lethality of the weapon, S is the Strength of the
weapon, and E is the Effectiveness of the weapon.



Quote:Vehicle Penetration
Given a Penetration value F of the firing unit and a final Protection value T of a
Vehicle target unit, the ratio F / T affects the fire value according to the
following cases:
• When the ratio F / T is less than 0.5, no fire effect occurs.
• When the ratio F / T is greater than 0.5 but less than 1.0, the fire value is
multiplied by 2 * (ratio – 0.5). Note that this gives a fire value of 0 when
the ratio is 0.5 and a nominal fire value when the ratio is 1.0.
• If the firing load is Vehicle Only (armor piercing) and the ratio F / T is
greater than 1.0 but less than 2.0, then the fire value is multiplied by 0.5 *
(ratio + 1).
• If the firing load is Vehicle Only and the ratio F / T is 2.0 or greater, then
the fire value is multiplied by 1.5.
For example, given a Vehicle target unit with a Protection value of 12, the
following modifiers would occur:
• If the Penetration value of the firing unit is 6, then no effect occurs.
• If the Penetration value of the firing unit is 9, then the fire value is
modified by 0.5.
• If the Penetration value of the firing unit is 12, then the nominal fire value
is used.
• If the firing load is Vehicle Only and the Penetration value of the firing
unit is 24, then the fire value is multiplied by 1.5
"Ideals are peaceful. History is violent."
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11-18-2017, 01:36 PM,
#7
RE: vulnerability of armored cars
I see your point Richie61. I think the small arms should have a chance to Immobilize the light vehicles but killing at long ranges seems not correct. Its a game so just an observation. I have only played aroun 50 sp games and 4 mp games so very new still. Thanks for the discussion.
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11-18-2017, 11:53 PM,
#8
RE: vulnerability of armored cars
(11-18-2017, 01:36 PM)Bloody Bill Wrote: I see your point Richie61.  I think the small arms should have a chance to Immobilize the light vehicles but killing at long ranges seems not correct.  Its a game so just an observation.  I have only played aroun 50 sp games and 4 mp games so very new still.  Thanks for the discussion.

What do you consider "long range"?

Always open for a PBEM game Wink
"Ideals are peaceful. History is violent."
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11-19-2017, 04:42 AM,
#9
RE: vulnerability of armored cars
I would say anything over 350 yards with small arms fire is not going to kill an armored vehicle. Immobilize yes kill not very likely and for sure not as often as the game allows it. I have four pbem games going on at the moment but two are close to ending so maybe here in a few days or a week I will be up for a battle.
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11-19-2017, 07:33 AM,
#10
RE: vulnerability of armored cars
I was talking to my buddy Dan and he told me about how armor ratings work in SB.
Front is like 150% of the sides and the rear is like 75% of the sides.

The other thing is that Tiller lumped guns together based on sizes, so if I am reading it right a German 88mm
isn't better than the US 90mm gun. I could be reading the data wrong.
"Ideals are peaceful. History is violent."
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