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Question for experienced players
10-30-2017, 03:35 AM, (This post was last modified: 10-30-2017, 03:40 AM by Weasel.)
#1
Question for experienced players
I am at mid November 1942 and I was wondering what aircraft levels experienced players aim for, if any, and which support units they tend to buy and which they ignore.

My aircraft levels are at 7348, of which:  3200 are fighter/FB; 950 are tactical bombers, and; 3100 are bombers/recon/NF/transport.  Should I be increasing or decreasing any amounts?  I think transports need more, only have 173 of them (I just disbanded a bunch of U2 ones).

As for support units what are the main ones you go for?  I seem to be mostly building army artillery, sappers, flame companies and construction units.  Mortars, rockets and tank battalions are little used, is that good or bad? I have yet to build a support AAA battalion, are they really needed?

Thanks for any feedback.

**Oh, what the hell do I do with air army HQ?**
Some of us are busy doing things; some of us are busy complaining - Debasish Mridha
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11-01-2017, 06:44 AM,
#2
RE: Question for experienced players
So I read up on PVO AAA vs AAA and PVO, according to historical fact and the manual, were AAA guns + interceptors but in the game there is no difference between the two when I build them.
Some of us are busy doing things; some of us are busy complaining - Debasish Mridha
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11-01-2017, 02:29 PM,
#3
RE: Question for experienced players
(11-01-2017, 06:44 AM)Weasel Wrote: So I read up on PVO AAA vs AAA and PVO, according to historical fact and the manual, were AAA guns + interceptors but in the game there is no difference between the two when I build them.

Hi Weasel,

In the game there is (not clearly shown to the player IMO), one is OB#176 and PVO is OB#412. 

#412 (Normally attached to cities) 41 PVO AA BN

10 Med Flak
2 Light Flak
5 Support

#176 (Normally attached to units) 41 AA BN

12 Med Flak
3 AAMG
5 Support

As the player, you can put them where you want, but historically that is their intended use (in general). If you look at 42 Campaign scenario in the Commander's Report for units you can see it. There are no OB upgrades.

Regiments are a different ballgame (OB)

The big difference is whether they get a 76mm AA device or 85mm AA device (better) for medium flak. Look at the equipment tab in the Commander's report.

All the Airbases are the same except for PVO which are for interceptors. You can't select bombing mission from them, if you only place fighters on them, otherwise they are for interceptors only. All Airbases to my knowledge have the same OB. The names are aesthetic for the most part. Again the players have a lot of leeway here. 

Hope this helps - Gris
'Millions died or suffered in the mud of Flanders between 1914-18. Who remembers them? Even those with names on their graves are by now unknown soldiers.' - Mier Ronnen, Jerusalem Post, 1933 Gris
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11-02-2017, 03:01 AM,
#4
RE: Question for experienced players
Oh, I see, I read this incorrectly, I thought it was saying that a PVO AA has interceptors AND AAA, but they are bulk speaking. I took the INCLUDES to mean it comes with both.

VO - Provito Vozdushnaya Oborona Strany - "Air Defense Forces" - includes both Air and Ground units, ie interceptors and AA units.
Some of us are busy doing things; some of us are busy complaining - Debasish Mridha
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11-02-2017, 07:44 AM,
#5
RE: Question for experienced players
(11-02-2017, 03:01 AM)Weasel Wrote: Oh, I see, I read this incorrectly, I thought it was saying that a PVO AA has interceptors AND AAA, but they are bulk speaking.  I took the INCLUDES to mean it comes with both.

VO - Provito Vozdushnaya Oborona Strany - "Air Defense Forces" - includes both Air and Ground units, ie interceptors and AA units.

And that is a good point too, because what the game is doing and what history was, maybe two different things. The game maybe keeping them separate for design reasons. Unfortunately past the OB in WITE, my knowledge is limited on Soviet AA.

Here is a post over at Axis History forums which talks about regiments and organizations.

https://forum.axishistory.com//viewtopic.php?t=151016

So you can see from the post the OB can get complicated. Also what is on "paper" is not what is on the ground.

All very interesting. 

In game I use PVO in the buildup areas and AA in the units and it helps me determine if I need more or less AA in either. The regiments I use in Heavy Urban hexes.

I try not to move existing ones if I do not have too, because of admin cost, it is high! (Rule 12.2.5. Other Admin Costs)

-Gris
'Millions died or suffered in the mud of Flanders between 1914-18. Who remembers them? Even those with names on their graves are by now unknown soldiers.' - Mier Ronnen, Jerusalem Post, 1933 Gris
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11-03-2017, 03:42 AM, (This post was last modified: 11-03-2017, 03:44 AM by Weasel.)
#6
RE: Question for experienced players
This game is so lopsided that I have abandoned all cities and am advancing westward, I have huge armies developed into corps waiting for the holes which have begun to open up so I can charge through, my objective it to knock Romania out in 1943.  I am currently moving about 30 division from the Caucus, Rostov and south east areas since there is no threat of attack so no need for them there. Playing as Russia is much more fun than playing as Germany.

[Image: WitE.jpg]
Some of us are busy doing things; some of us are busy complaining - Debasish Mridha
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11-03-2017, 05:55 AM,
#7
RE: Question for experienced players
(10-30-2017, 03:35 AM)Weasel Wrote: I am at mid November 1942 and I was wondering what aircraft levels experienced players aim for, if any, and which support units they tend to buy and which they ignore.

My aircraft levels are at 7348, of which:  3200 are fighter/FB; 950 are tactical bombers, and; 3100 are bombers/recon/NF/transport.  Should I be increasing or decreasing any amounts?  I think transports need more, only have 173 of them (I just disbanded a bunch of U2 ones).

As for support units what are the main ones you go for?  I seem to be mostly building army artillery, sappers, flame companies and construction units.  Mortars, rockets and tank battalions are little used, is that good or bad?  I have yet to build a support AAA battalion, are they really needed?

Thanks for any feedback.

**Oh, what the hell do I do with air army HQ?**

For Air Army Hq, pretty much the same as other HQs. You can only assign AA support units (I assign at least 2 AA Bn), and keep them in range of units (although supply is different for them). Probably the most important function you can perform is assign a really good Leader. Leaders influence many of the action your air units perform.

Support and Aircraft preferences seem to vary from player to player. In the beginning many players disbanded the Motorcycle units for the trucks, but they also have a high CV. Oddly enough, last time I check, they had no recon value, which you would think otherwise. I use a lot of artillery and mortars. I like to hit the enemy in all range bands. I use motorcycle units at Front HQ (although they don't always join combats, never dug into why). Flame units are just cool. The difficulty I have and one of the reasons I don't dig into it too much is every patch the device list changes (huge list) and it has an effect. So are Motorcycle Regiments good? Maybe if the Motorcycle "devices" are. I think you have three player camps in both areas. 

1. Players build whatever, randomly, when they remember to. This was me in the beginning.

2. Min/max. Digs into the numbers and builds the most effective units. I have too many games going on to invest the time in this one.

3. Historical perception (my version of history, which may be "accurate"). I fall in this camp. I like to make the 5th Guards Tanks Army just like the Soviets did.

So if you are new and want an idea how to do this, here is one way without researching Tables of Organizations. (Although researching TO&E is great fun! Just sayin')

Open up the Campaign game 1944 -45 and find the 5th GTA (hex 86,51). Here is the Support units attached.

[Image: 5GTA.jpg]

If your not sure what to build, here is what the Soviets did and it worked for them. It is a good start. You can use this for airbases too. The 1st Air Army had 15 airbases with 2-4 air groups per base. The Soviets have 328 air groups. 142 Fighters/FB, 124 Tac, and the rest. You can look at the campaign in each year to get an idea of where your historical counterpart was. You can look at Soviets Corps too and see what are attached to them.

[Image: 36th%20Corps.jpg]

You can see the units in the bottom right. It also is a great reference for experience, morale, and CV comparisons. 

I like to lean towards artillery at all ranges. For Aircraft, 1/2 fighters, 1/4+ Tac, 1/4- everything else. I will compensate too. If I am short on transports, I will build IL-4s if I have more of them, until I get the transports up to speed. They have great range and if you set them to night on a VSS airbases they can help supply partisans. If I have an abundance of T-34's. I will build separate tank BN. 

I wish I could post a snapshot from my current game, but it is on the server. It would be interesting to see some of the ideal builds by other players on the ladder.

Weasel,  It would be interesting to see what you have attached to one of your Corps and the CVs vs the 36th.

Myself, I lean towards history (as related in WITE and my own grandiose perception) and based on what I have logistically. 

Except for flame units. They are just too cool to pass up. See you on the Steppe.

- Gris.
'Millions died or suffered in the mud of Flanders between 1914-18. Who remembers them? Even those with names on their graves are by now unknown soldiers.' - Mier Ronnen, Jerusalem Post, 1933 Gris
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11-03-2017, 06:11 AM, (This post was last modified: 11-03-2017, 06:17 AM by Weasel.)
#8
RE: Question for experienced players
Here is the Guards Army HQ

[Image: Guards%20Army.jpg]

Guards Corps
[Image: guards%20corp.jpg]

Infantry corps
[Image: infantry%20corps.jpg]

and tank corps

[Image: tank%20corps.jpg]

Cavalry Corps
[Image: Cavalry%20corps.jpg]

I buy lots of flame units, both tank and infantry, and motorcycle units and try to put a sapper regiment with each corps since I am attacking dug in positions. The guard cavalry is an oddity, I normally put in a TD battery, mg-arty and a flame tank but made a mistake here.
Some of us are busy doing things; some of us are busy complaining - Debasish Mridha
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11-04-2017, 08:32 AM,
#9
RE: Question for experienced players
Hi Weasel,

Great information. Something else to note, you can see the effect experience and morale has on different formations. Compare the 6th Guards to the 55th. Take notice of the construction value too. 74 to 19. The effect of different devices, experience, TOEs and morale. I also use MG BNs, I usually have the ground elements to make them in abundance.  Standardizing units attached to Corps, Armies, and Front help keep you organized and streamlines composition of your forces. 

Ricky B pointed out this effect (experience) out in this post. Here you can actually see the culmination of your previous efforts. Imagine your units now in 43 or 44. The Soviet Steamroller! The Steppe is yours for the taking.

I find the logistics just as enjoyable as the combat. Excellent post. 

- Gris
'Millions died or suffered in the mud of Flanders between 1914-18. Who remembers them? Even those with names on their graves are by now unknown soldiers.' - Mier Ronnen, Jerusalem Post, 1933 Gris
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11-04-2017, 11:23 AM,
#10
RE: Question for experienced players
I only realized last turn before the screen shots above that my units adjacent to the enemy will not upgrade their equipment or will do so slowly while withdrawn and set to refit will do it much quicker. I had noticed that a bunch of my units were still using T60s instead of T70s.
Some of us are busy doing things; some of us are busy complaining - Debasish Mridha
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