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Achilles HA Value
01-06-2016, 07:24 AM,
#1
Achilles HA Value
is 60. Just curious if that is right as it is so much greater than anything else I have seen.
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01-06-2016, 09:02 AM,
#2
RE: Achilles HA Value
(01-06-2016, 07:24 AM)GerryM Wrote: is 60. Just curious if that is right as it is so much greater than anything else I have seen.

Yes, it's right. The base level for a 17 pounder (as on the Firefly) is 54. You never see that value as its diluted by the other three standard Shermans in a platoon. The Achilles use the 17 pounder but had special ammunition (ACBC from memory?) that was generally not available due to rarity. The Achilles units in Normandy were given it due to their specialised anti-tank role.

David
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01-06-2016, 09:14 AM,
#3
RE: Achilles HA Value
APDS maybe.

How high are the values for the German 88 I am curious.

Gerry
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01-06-2016, 09:30 AM, (This post was last modified: 01-06-2016, 09:44 AM by Chris Merchant.)
#4
RE: Achilles HA Value
(01-06-2016, 09:14 AM)GerryM Wrote: APDS maybe.

How high are the values for the German 88 I am curious.

Gerry

Game has 8,8cm Flak 18  HA value of 32.  8,8cm Pak 43 has HA of 48.

cheers
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01-06-2016, 04:28 PM, (This post was last modified: 01-06-2016, 04:38 PM by ComradeP.)
#5
RE: Achilles HA Value
The in-game HA rating of the Firefly and 17 pounder is 44, not 54, which is also why I wondered shortly after release why the Achilles has a much higher value. 16 points for improved ammunition is a big bonus.

It's 54 for the Polish, but not for everybody else.
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01-06-2016, 07:05 PM, (This post was last modified: 01-06-2016, 07:07 PM by Strela.)
#6
RE: Achilles HA Value
(01-06-2016, 04:28 PM)ComradeP Wrote: The in-game HA rating of the Firefly and 17 pounder is 44, not 54, which is also why I wondered shortly after release why the Achilles has a much higher value. 16 points for improved ammunition is a big bonus.

It's 54 for the Polish, but not for everybody else.

Boy, people are poking around where they shouldn't be...!!!!   Helmet Wink

There are three hard attack values used in game for 17 pounders - 44, 54 & 60.

They are determined as follows;

44 = 17 pounder with Armour Piercing, Capped, Ballistic Capped (APCBC) ammunition
54 = 17 pounder with  Armour-piercing discarding sabot (APDS) ammunition
60 = 17 pounder with a higher proportion of loadout of Armour-piercing discarding sabot (APDS) ammunition

As per Wikipedia Link and WW II Equipment Link there was only limited APDS available in Normandy, essentially only available in any meaningful quantity for the final breakout battles.

As far as the different values shown in game, firstly there are no pure Firefly units. They are included in the OB but were never used. All Fireflies were spread across platoons to give some AT capability against the German heavy armour. You can ignore those units currently (the reason the Polish were higher was because they didn't arrive until the breakout battles).

We only factored the 44 value into the averaging of the 3+1 Firefly platoons as they represented the vast majority of vehicles during the whole campaign. There was no value in creating a complete second OB for the last couple of scenarios by date.

The Achilles was different as they were given the round as soon as available and it made up the bulk of their ammunition load out.

i hope this helps to explain the decisions we have made in game regarding the 17 pounder.

David
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01-07-2016, 10:56 AM,
#7
RE: Achilles HA Value
And to have a final say, as I went back and had a look at my notes, I was reminded of one of the websites we used for initial numbers and platoon layout. Amazing what is publicly available in the Internet age...

21st Army Group Fielded Tank Strengths France, June 1944


David
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