Request for an Important Thread: "Rules of Engagement for PBEM Games"

[RADO]

(04-29-2012 06:07 AM)Von Earlmann Wrote:  

(04-28-2012 11:32 PM)PawelM Wrote:  I have been following this threat closely. Trough my reltively short time at the Blitz I have been gaining the knowledge of all the little unwritten ROE ( e.g. like ones discussed in this thread) which have been developed in the community and are widely accepted by many long time members ( Personally many of these ROE are nice little rules which bear sensible and have fair justification - but this is not the purpose of this post).

Correct me if I am wrong, but I sensed ( it is always a bit risky to base the judgement on my senses ) a bit of stereotyping in this thread that long term members who have been here sometimes from the inception of the club are considering those who adapt the rules as little bit as nobel knights and those who do not are seem to be tainted as the ones lacking honour. I know noone has said it that way, but this is the impression one might get (again one with the sense like mine ) .

I do not seem the problem with both as a different way of playing the game. And the Blitz can be home to any way (expcept the cheater are not wellcome).


Pawel,
It is not so much a question of honor. it's a question of two ways to play the game and they are truly not compatible. Most of the old guard prefer the traditional way of using units as historically as possible. The other view point says lets play everything the game allows. The former is my preference as I feel the latter tends to make it more of an arcade game. I don't care for arcade games no matter what the roes are.....as to setting them before the game that is probably a good idea. I usually don't say too much but if my opponent uses gamey tactics I usually thank them for the game and ride off into the sunset.
When running a campaign I let it be known that gamey tactics will not be tolerated and as the gamemaster I will take steps to nullify them and penalize them when evaluating victory levels.

Fortunately most of the guys who campaign realise expending transport units, etc will result in no transport as the campaign progresses. Neither me nor their opponents seem to object to that lack of mobility :-)

Just different ways of playing the game is all.......

VE

??? Something seems to be missing ...

[PawelM]

(04-29-2012 06:07 AM)Von Earlmann Wrote:  it's a question of two ways to play the game and they are truly not compatible.
Just different ways of playing the game is all.......

VE

Totally agree they are not compatibile and I objectively do not see a way of combining the two successfully within a single game. Most members stick to one of two and keep it that way.

I do not mind playing the game both ways - simply another personal preference or lack of strong one for any of the above.

Therefore discuss here is particuraly of interest to me I can accept any reasonable ROE's and once I do I keep it that way. Over my few months at the Blitz I learned few ROE's and gradually started adopting them by default if none were agreed (mainly hafltracks, truck etc). And am still learning new ROE's. As recently of in our team game about exit rules.

What worried me a bit I had few oppinions in this thread that few members said they would not want to play a "gamey" player ever again once they have done somethin gamey.

As I said, being aware of HTs and truck assault blocking I started gradually assuming by default thes as fair rules. Thinking this was about it what was expected I learned a painful way about exit rules. I would not want to close my route to playing a member by unknowingly breaking the rule I do not know. I fully agree this treatment would be justified if I was aware of the rule and still used it against the player knowing their attitude...

Based on the above Dave I do not think I am the best person to be compiling a list as I am sill gaining the knowledge on ROEs and this discussion was a good crash course..... There is many finer players with significantly more experience

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(04-29-2012 06:18 AM)RADO Wrote:  

(04-29-2012 06:07 AM)Von Earlmann Wrote:  

(04-28-2012 11:32 PM)PawelM Wrote:  I have been following this threat closely. Trough my reltively short time at the Blitz I have been gaining the knowledge of all the little unwritten ROE ( e.g. like ones discussed in this thread) which have been developed in the community and are widely accepted by many long time members ( Personally many of these ROE are nice little rules which bear sensible and have fair justification - but this is not the purpose of this post).

Correct me if I am wrong, but I sensed ( it is always a bit risky to base the judgement on my senses ) a bit of stereotyping in this thread that long term members who have been here sometimes from the inception of the club are considering those who adapt the rules as little bit as nobel knights and those who do not are seem to be tainted as the ones lacking honour. I know noone has said it that way, but this is the impression one might get (again one with the sense like mine ) .

I do not seem the problem with both as a different way of playing the game. And the Blitz can be home to any way (expcept the cheater are not wellcome).


Pawel,
It is not so much a question of honor. it's a question of two ways to play the game and they are truly not compatible. Most of the old guard prefer the traditional way of using units as historically as possible. The other view point says lets play everything the game allows. The former is my preference as I feel the latter tends to make it more of an arcade game. I don't care for arcade games no matter what the roes are.....as to setting them before the game that is probably a good idea. I usually don't say too much but if my opponent uses gamey tactics I usually thank them for the game and ride off into the sunset.
When running a campaign I let it be known that gamey tactics will not be tolerated and as the gamemaster I will take steps to nullify them and penalize them when evaluating victory levels.

Fortunately most of the guys who campaign realise expending transport units, etc will result in no transport as the campaign progresses. Neither me nor their opponents seem to object to that lack of mobility :-)

Just different ways of playing the game is all.......

VE

??? Something seems to be missing ...

Greg,

I think it is due to quote tags. THe lower part of VE's replay is his reply which for some reason seems to have been joined up with my post

I think......

[Scud]

Quote:What worried me a bit I had few oppinions in this thread that few members said they would not want to play a "gamey" player ever again once they have done somethin gamey.

I think what was meant is if the member continued to play in a gamey fashion, after it was pointed out to him, then, no, that member would not be asked for another game.

Quote:Based on the above Dave I do not think I am the best person to be compiling a list as I am sill gaining the knowledge on ROEs and this discussion was a good crash course..... There is many finer players with significantly more experience

Fair enough, but you make valid points and we'll see if we can come up with a list regardless.

Thanks,
Dave

[PawelM]

(04-29-2012 06:52 AM)Scud Wrote:  I think what was meant is if the member continued to play in a gamey fashion, after it was pointed out to him, then, no, that member would not be asked for another game.

This is what I hoped to hear.... a yellow card before the red one especially if both players make a a mistake of assuming they are all aware rather then agreeing prior the game what eachothers ROEs

[Herr Straßen Läufer]

(04-29-2012 07:04 AM)PawelM Wrote:  

(04-29-2012 06:52 AM)Scud Wrote:  I think what was meant is if the member continued to play in a gamey fashion, after it was pointed out to him, then, no, that member would not be asked for another game.

This is what I hoped to hear.... a yellow card before the red one especially if both players make a a mistake of assuming they are all aware rather then agreeing prior the game what each others ROEs

HSL

[Von Earlmann]

You know this is a good thread..........maybe a discussion by both players before playing is a good idea after all :-)......however, if a player tends to be gamey no discussion will change that.......same as if a player tends to be historical....no discussion will change that..........so east is east and west is west and never the twain shall meet........sad but true :-)

VE

[Warhorse]

All I can say is so far, I'm having a very enjoyable time playing PBEM!! I don't even know what points I'm getting, and don't really even care, I'm just having a good time with folks, playing my favorite game! A little convo before the game to figure what each likes, then have at it!!

Mike

[PawelM]

(04-29-2012 11:50 AM)Von Earlmann Wrote:  You know this is a good thread..........maybe a discussion by both players before playing is a good idea after all :-)......however, if a player tends to be gamey no discussion will change that.......same as if a player tends to be historical....no discussion will change that..........so east is east and west is west and never the twain shall meet........sad but true :-)

VE

Agreed and this is why I would even want to convince anyone.

After I joined the Blitz not so long ago I learned I would do some gamey stuff every so often, mainly HT use and (as of recently learned) regarding complete ban on exiting units. Because this was the way I used to play before I do not mind a game like that. At the same time I equally enjoy a game with ROE limiting gamey play.

as VE said these are 2 completely differen ways to play the game, but some people may choose to play both rather than limiting it to one. I could only hope that any sensible member disliking gamey style, can be sensible and would play with some like me provided I adhere to the rules which were communicated to me- rather tha assumed I should know them.....

personally when I play someone the first time in an individual game I always discuss optional rules like AF, EA etc and try and ask the question about any other ROE?
I expect to get a reply detailing any ROE. So say if a player replies all options on But Vv and EA, I would take it all the game allows is in force....' which in my case would more to do with the exit and HT as above.

does it mean I should be tainted or excluded by one the camps? I hope not. Becasue regardless of the rules I always offer an honest game and adhere to the rules which have been agreed.

Uffffff that was a long one :)

[Herr Straßen Läufer]

(04-29-2012 08:12 PM)PawelM Wrote:  After I joined the Blitz not so long ago I learned I would do some gamey stuff every so often, mainly HT use and (as of recently learned) regarding complete ban on exiting units. Because this was the way I used to play before I do not mind a game like that. At the same time I equally enjoy a game with ROE limiting gamey play.

Uh, not exiting non combat units is not a universally accepted personal ROE. I move wagons, trucks, and unarmed halftracks off the map. Only combat units (anything that can fire and/or assault) stays on regardless. Though, if specifically stated by the scenario designer or a tournament director I will keep them on (and take them on axle busting journeys through the mountains, valleys, and forests. Using unlimited supplies of gas and driver strength.).

(04-29-2012 08:12 PM)PawelM Wrote:  I could only hope that any sensible member disliking gamey style, can be sensible and would play with some like me provided I adhere to the rules which were communicated to me- rather that assumed I should know them.....

Adhering to previously accepted rules is sensible.

(04-29-2012 08:12 PM)PawelM Wrote:  personally when I play someone the first time in an individual game I always discuss optional rules like AF, EA etc and try and ask the question about any other ROE?
I expect to get a reply detailing any ROE. So say if a player replies all options on But Vv and EA, I would take it all the game allows is in force....' which in my case would more to do with the exit and HT as above.

Always ask the question, "what about non combat units?" Otherwise the second part only refers to Vv and EA. Later your opponent cannot complain (or should not). They should understand that they did not detail their personal ROE's, and cannot hold it against you.

(04-29-2012 08:12 PM)PawelM Wrote:  does it mean I should be tainted or excluded by one the camps? I hope not. Because, regardless of the rules, I always offer an honest game and adhere to the rules which have been agreed.

I see it as, we are all in one camp. The Blitz JTCS camp. Each player has their own way of doing things but, we all love the game?

Like in the example of a meat eater and a vegetarian?
We all leave our camp tents to meet at the meal. It does not mean we all have to eat everything?



HSL

[PawelM]

I like HSL's meat eater and vegetarian analogy. I could be a meat eater, bu enjoy dining with vegetarian and respectfully observe their house rules while at the table with them