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re: scenario design
11-18-2011, 08:16 AM,
#61
RE: scenario design
(11-17-2011, 04:14 PM)Glint Wrote: Nah, got plenty of thick skin, just comes down to respect in my book for others' efforts.
Not sure what my 'circle' has to do with the subject of the thread really?
Anyway, think I've already made the point in post No.44?

Hmmm ... thick skin and respect?

Do you cheer for someone that comes in last place in a race as long as he "shows respect"?
Do you respect someone who plays, uploads, rates, and then removes a scenario so that no one else can play it and/or rate it?

Do you want to be honestly assessed or hear false flowery words?

By your circle, I meant that you may have a limited group. Especially if it is one or two people of similar relative skills?
I hope you read nothing else into it?

I've tested my scenarios against players of varied skills. Often five or six different players for one scenario and made changes based on the extrapolated experience of each. Kind of a blend of opinions.
If I believed that feedback was not quite right I extended the test to more players.
If I believed that I was getting "false flowery words", I'd try to test it with someone who would let me know if it was crap.

I may have put up some "limited" and/or flawed scenario designs early on. We all do?
But, I have found a deeper respect for scenario design that I would not put up anything that I thought was "crap". Not even to report it and then remove it so that others could not play it. :chin:

I hope this stayed enough within your boundaries of scenario design?
It is my view of things. Others may feel differently?

cheers

HSL
11-18-2011, 04:21 PM,
#62
RE: re: scenario design
I am stating a point of view regards my personal choice regards H2H. Whether a scenario is good or crap is in the mind of the guy playing it, each individual will think differently.
If I design a scenario and play test it, it needs to be downloaded to record a game surely, or that's the way my mind sees it. The games were up for sometime in the database and never played.
I chose to remove them for personal reasons that I won't go into on the forum.
No, I think actually, your remarks are nothing to do with the original question in my thread and respectfully request that perhaps you open your own thread to discuss what makes a respected scenario designer/ what is a rubbish designer.
Sorry to all others who have contributed and thanks for the helpful replies.
11-18-2011, 08:32 PM,
#63
RE: scenario design
(11-18-2011, 04:21 PM)Glint Wrote: I am stating a point of view regards my personal choice regards H2H. Whether a scenario is good or crap is in the mind of the guy playing it, each individual will think differently.

Actually not true. But, I see your point.

(11-18-2011, 04:21 PM)Glint Wrote: If I design a scenario and play test it, it needs to be downloaded to record a game surely, or that's the way my mind sees it. The games were up for sometime in the database and never played.

First time I have seen this.
Most designers simply put their scenarios in the dBASE to be played. There are no points given for uploading scenarios, unless they go through H2H. My point was that you get to report a game that no one else gets to report. Simply because you were testing a scenario?

(11-18-2011, 04:21 PM)Glint Wrote: I chose to remove them for personal reasons that I won't go into on the forum.

I can understand why you do no wish to discuss this. But, it costs nothing to have a scenario sit in the dBASE. There are tons of scenarios that sit unplayed.

(11-18-2011, 04:21 PM)Glint Wrote: No, I think actually, your remarks are nothing to do with the original question in my thread and respectfully request that perhaps you open your own thread to discuss what makes a respected scenario designer/ what is a rubbish designer.

The thread topic was scenario design. Your original discussion started with asking about troop density in attack or defense?
From there as members tried to understand what specific answer you wanted it weaved through, how to design scenarios, what makes a good scenario, and how units are supplied in a scenario. (Funny that you made no comment about the supply diversion from your original premise?)

(11-18-2011, 04:21 PM)Glint Wrote: Sorry to all others who have contributed and thanks for the helpful replies.

What are you sorry for?
This thread meandered trough many thoughts and concepts on scenario design. It was all done in a "nice" way and I did not see any unhelpful replies. That a thread expands into many side discussions is part of any forum. If the mods wanted to keep it to your specific question they would have stepped in earlier on?
It is a forum? It is theirs to moderate.

cheers

HSL

11-19-2011, 12:08 AM, (This post was last modified: 11-19-2011, 12:11 AM by Kool Kat.)
#64
RE: scenario design
(11-18-2011, 04:21 PM)Glint Wrote: I am stating a point of view regards my personal choice regards H2H. Whether a scenario is good or crap is in the mind of the guy playing it, each individual will think differently.

Actually, that's not true.

You complained, in an earlier post (Post #42), playing scenarios with companies that were not added correctly to their parent organizations. Well, there's an example of a poor scenario design... that becomes very evident when you play the game and the units can't resupply? It directly impacts the game in a negative way and contributes to the game being "crap."

That's not an subjective opinion... but a fact.

Again, if developers don't adhere to the game scale... don't utilize correct and functional OOB's... and don't follow a myriad of other "good practices" when designing scenarios... the end result will be a poorly constructed game that nobody will play because these creations are flawed in so many fundamental ways?

I don't know of many players who would wish to play through such Frankenstein "monsters"... and than to declare... or believe in their minds... that such scenarios are good? :chin:







Regards, Mike / "A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week." - George S. Patton /
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11-19-2011, 07:41 AM,
#65
RE: re: scenario design
KK and HSL, - I could respond but let's just say this, -

'' Glint Wrote: If I design a scenario and play test it, it needs to be downloaded to record a game surely, or that's the way my mind sees it. The games were up for sometime in the database and never played.


HSL Quote - ''First time I have seen this.
Most designers simply put their scenarios in the dBASE to be played. There are no points given for uploading scenarios, unless they go through H2H. My point was that you get to report a game that no one else gets to report. Simply because you were testing a scenario?''

If I playtest a scenario with someone and we don't get bonus points as in H2H, then at least the result should be reported and points awarded out of respect for the time dedicated to such playtest. The scenario needs uploading to report a result does it not? If then it is decided that the scenario needs modifications, what is the point of leaving it in the database for others to play? I think in the past that you have argued for the database to be cleared out of the 'dross' that are unplayed so give me credit for keeping my scenarios private until I am happy with them and thus keeping the database 'uncluttered' ?


11-19-2011, 07:56 AM, (This post was last modified: 11-19-2011, 08:08 AM by Kool Kat.)
#66
RE: scenario design
(11-19-2011, 07:41 AM)Glint Wrote: ]If I playtest a scenario with someone and we don't get bonus points as in H2H, then at least the result should be reported and points awarded out of respect for the time dedicated to such playtest. The scenario needs uploading to report a result does it not? If then it is decided that the scenario needs modifications, what is the point of leaving it in the database for others to play?

Wait a minute! :eek1:

You, as a scenario designer, are uploading "test scenarios" into the regular game dbase... reporting the game results for the points... and than removing these "test scenarios" for more modifications or deleting them entirely?

In other words, you are using the CS game dbase as your own testing section?

IMO, that is completely wrong... and an abuse of what the CS dbase is intended... which is a repository of tested and finished scenarios?

And I believe this is a disservice to fellow CS players... who search the game dbase for finished products... not works under development.

I would really like a moderator or club officer to weigh in on this revelation!

Regards, Mike / "A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week." - George S. Patton /
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11-19-2011, 08:04 AM,
#67
RE: scenario design
(11-19-2011, 12:08 AM)Kool Kat Wrote:
(11-18-2011, 04:21 PM)Glint Wrote: I am stating a point of view regards my personal choice regards H2H. Whether a scenario is good or crap is in the mind of the guy playing it, each individual will think differently.

Actually, that's not true.

You complained, in an earlier post (Post #42), playing scenarios with companies that were not added correctly to their parent organizations. Well, there's an example of a poor scenario design... that becomes very evident when you play the game and the units can't resupply? It directly impacts the game in a negative way and contributes to the game being "crap."

That's not an subjective opinion... but a fact.

Again, if developers don't adhere to the game scale... don't utilize correct and functional OOB's... and don't follow a myriad of other "good practices" when designing scenarios... the end result will be a poorly constructed game that nobody will play because these creations are flawed in so many fundamental ways?

I don't know of many players who would wish to play through such Frankenstein "monsters"... and than to declare... or believe in their minds... that such scenarios are good? :chin:

Totally disagree! Many games I have played were chosen at random, with die rolls for the theatre, scenario and side played. Therefore many of my games played have been well designed, poor or whatever, for whatever reason. I'm sure I'm not the first to select games this way and find it more preferable to play a game completely blind and playing with what I'm dealt with, rather than to check scenario files, oob files etc, to know what's what in the scenario? I don't think I have ever been on record as stating anyones' scenario is good or bad? This is what I meant when I say I respect a guy for taking time to create a scenario whether poor or good in my opinion. I certainly wouldn't put myself on a pedestal and judge what criteria a scenario should be judged by.
I seem to remember playing an H2H scenario in RS that was passed by H2H yet, when I played it and made a constructive criticism about it, the point was taken into account and the scenario was amended? So much for H2H endorsed opinions in my opinion and a reason I'd never go through that route. I'm happy testing with my trusted friends, (inside and outside the circle).


11-19-2011, 08:23 AM,
#68
RE: scenario design
(11-19-2011, 07:56 AM)Kool Kat Wrote:
(11-19-2011, 07:41 AM)Glint Wrote: ]If I playtest a scenario with someone and we don't get bonus points as in H2H, then at least the result should be reported and points awarded out of respect for the time dedicated to such playtest. The scenario needs uploading to report a result does it not? If then it is decided that the scenario needs modifications, what is the point of leaving it in the database for others to play?

Wait a minute! :eek1:

You, as a scenario designer, are uploading "test scenarios" into the regular game dbase... reporting the game results for the points... and than removing these "test scenarios" for more modifications or deleting them entirely?

In other words, you are using the CS game dbase as your own testing section?

IMO, that is completely wrong... and an abuse of what the CS dbase is intended... which is a repository of tested and finished scenarios?

And I believe this is a disservice to fellow CS players... who search the game dbase for finished products... not works under development.

I would really like a moderator or club officer to weigh in on this revelation!

Oh Please KK! Show me in the CS rules where I am abusing anything? You are great at pasting references from everywhere, bring it on and validate your abusive remarks. Yeah, moderators weigh in please on this. I already asked for this thread to be closed as some guys are starting to bait but, was unable to despite being the thread author?
As I said KK, quote me where I am breaking any rules. otherwise retract your slanderous statement. Maybe you won't be happy until you reign over CS?
I've maybe reported a handful of playtested scenarios out of near on 300 games played. I find your comments totally derogatory and out of order.
A while ago I suggested you and HSL block me yet here I am getting constant attention and even PM messages from you KK!

11-19-2011, 08:46 AM,
#69
RE: re: scenario design
OK, moderators are now involved. As are site officers. We'll discuss what's going on. In the meantime this thread is closed until further notice.

Thanks,
Dave
Resolve then, that on this very ground, with small flags waving and tinny blast on tiny trumpets, we shall meet the enemy, and not only may he be ours, he may be us. --Walt Kelly
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