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re: scenario design
11-17-2011, 12:06 AM,
#31
RE: scenario design
(11-16-2011, 11:59 PM)Von Earlmann Wrote: I am pretty sure if a tank platoon,infantry platoon etc goes low on ammo due to firing the only way it can recover supply is thru it's own parent hq and if it is not there it will not be able to regain supply....as far as I can dedeuce the only units that check against base levels are HQs and indirect fire units.

No, regular platoons work the same way. They will check against their HQ first and if that fails they will check against the base ammo level.

Artillery checks only against the base ammo level.

Eventually, I would like to introduce a separate ammo level for artillery - as an option.

Jason Petho


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11-17-2011, 12:40 AM,
#32
RE: scenario design
(11-16-2011, 11:59 PM)Von Earlmann Wrote: I am pretty sure if a tank platoon,infantry platoon etc goes low on ammo due to firing the only way it can recover supply is thru it's own parent hq and if it is not there it will not be able to regain supply.

Earl - so if a tank or infantry platoon's battalion parent HQ is destroyed... could these units recover supply through a non-parent battalion HQ (e.g. a friendly battalion HQ unit that is part of a different organization?

Or would these units have to recover supply via their same parent HQs? (e.g. If their parent battalion HQ is destroyed... these units would attempt to recover supply via their parent regimental and/or divisional HQs? If these units can't... than they go out of supply?

I am not clear on these "supply" questions! :conf:

Regards, Mike / "A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week." - George S. Patton /
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11-17-2011, 12:48 AM, (This post was last modified: 11-17-2011, 12:49 AM by Jason Petho.)
#33
RE: scenario design
(11-17-2011, 12:40 AM)Kool Kat Wrote: so if a tank or infantry platoon's battalion parent HQ is destroyed... could these units recover supply through a non-parent battalion HQ (e.g. a friendly battalion HQ unit that is part of a different organization?

If the HQ was destroyed, it will attempt the regain supply from the parent Regiment HQ if available on the map, as you suggest below.

(11-17-2011, 12:40 AM)Kool Kat Wrote: Or would these units have to recover supply via their same parent HQs? (e.g. If their parent battalion HQ is destroyed... these units would attempt to recover supply via their parent regimental and/or divisional HQs? If these units can't... than they go out of supply?

If these units can't, then the unit will attempt to check supply against the base ammo level.

If they fail, then they go out or remain out of supply.
Jason Petho
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11-17-2011, 01:21 AM,
#34
RE: scenario design
(11-17-2011, 12:48 AM)Jason Petho Wrote:
(11-17-2011, 12:40 AM)Kool Kat Wrote: so if a tank or infantry platoon's battalion parent HQ is destroyed... could these units recover supply through a non-parent battalion HQ (e.g. a friendly battalion HQ unit that is part of a different organization?

If the HQ was destroyed, it will attempt the regain supply from the parent Regiment HQ if available on the map, as you suggest below.

(11-17-2011, 12:40 AM)Kool Kat Wrote: Or would these units have to recover supply via their same parent HQs? (e.g. If their parent battalion HQ is destroyed... these units would attempt to recover supply via their parent regimental and/or divisional HQs? If these units can't... than they go out of supply?

If these units can't, then the unit will attempt to check supply against the base ammo level.

If they fail, then they go out or remain out of supply.
Jason Petho

Very good! Thank you Jason! :bow:
Regards, Mike / "A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week." - George S. Patton /
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11-17-2011, 01:37 AM,
#35
RE: scenario design
(11-17-2011, 12:48 AM)Jason Petho Wrote:
(11-17-2011, 12:40 AM)Kool Kat Wrote: so if a tank or infantry platoon's battalion parent HQ is destroyed... could these units recover supply through a non-parent battalion HQ (e.g. a friendly battalion HQ unit that is part of a different organization?

If the HQ was destroyed, it will attempt the regain supply from the parent Regiment HQ if available on the map, as you suggest below.

(11-17-2011, 12:40 AM)Kool Kat Wrote: Or would these units have to recover supply via their same parent HQs? (e.g. If their parent battalion HQ is destroyed... these units would attempt to recover supply via their parent regimental and/or divisional HQs? If these units can't... than they go out of supply?

If these units can't, then the unit will attempt to check supply against the base ammo level.

If they fail, then they go out or remain out of supply.
Jason Petho

I respectfully disagree......I have units that have been out of supply almost an entire scenario without a parent HQ and they never regain supply even with an 80% base level........of course that could just be my bad luck..I also designed A Close Run Thing and a lot of the German battalions have no HQ to simulate the low level of Axis supply.....when they go low on ammo they rarely recover supply either....I'm pretty sure in the original CS rules when a unit went out of supply it could only get it back thru its parent HQ....so something has changed.
VE
"The secret to success is not just doing the things you enjoy but rather enjoying everything that you do."
11-17-2011, 01:46 AM,
#36
RE: scenario design
(11-17-2011, 01:37 AM)Von Earlmann Wrote: I respectfully disagree......I have units that have been out of supply almost an entire scenario without a parent HQ and they never regain supply even with an 80% base level........of course that could just be my bad luck..I also designed A Close Run Thing and a lot of the German battalions have no HQ to simulate the low level of Axis supply.....when they go low on ammo they rarely recover supply either....I'm pretty sure in the original CS rules when a unit went out of supply it could only get it back thru its parent HQ....so something has changed.
VE

Must be bad luck then, Page 92 of the current manual states the same thing.

Jason Petho



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11-17-2011, 02:00 AM,
#37
RE: re: scenario design
Gents: :smoke:

Excerpt from page 93 (CS Users Manual)

"HQs – An HQ can only provide supply to units under its command “umbrella.” In addition, an HQ is never able to provide supply on any turn following a turn in which it changed its location (this simulates the Headquarters having to set up and re-establish communications).

Besides that, each Headquarters (exception: Army-level HQs) must also make a supply check at the beginning of each turn. Like a normal combat unit, the Headquarters first checks supply based on the distance from its parent Headquarters; however, if that supply check fails, it then checks using the base ammo level listed for its side."


So, I believe the above also answers my earlier question and elaborates on Jason's reply too? :chin:

Units must recover supply ONLY via HQ's in the same organization... and not from friendly, non-parent HQ's.

I love it when folks go to the CS Manual for answers... and find them! ;)
Regards, Mike / "A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week." - George S. Patton /
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11-17-2011, 02:04 AM,
#38
RE: scenario design
Does anyone have their original East Front or East Front II manual kicking around?

I would be curious to see what it says about supply in that.

I'm still in Halifax, NS, otherwise I'd check myself.

Jason Petho
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11-17-2011, 02:07 AM, (This post was last modified: 11-17-2011, 02:13 AM by Kool Kat.)
#39
RE: scenario design
(11-17-2011, 02:04 AM)Jason Petho Wrote: Does anyone have their original East Front or East Front II manual kicking around?

I would be curious to see what it says about supply in that.

Yes. Same text statements in the "hard copy" User Manual.

Players will find the HQ and Supply statements on pages 65 - 66 of the East Front II User Manual.

Regards, Mike / "A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week." - George S. Patton /
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11-17-2011, 03:21 AM,
#40
RE: scenario design
(11-17-2011, 02:00 AM)Kool Kat Wrote: Gents: :smoke:

Excerpt from page 93 (CS Users Manual)

"HQs – An HQ can only provide supply to units under its command “umbrella.” In addition, an HQ is never able to provide supply on any turn following a turn in which it changed its location (this simulates the Headquarters having to set up and re-establish communications).
THIS IS EXACTLY MY POINT....THOSE UNITS CAN ONLY GET SUPPLY FROM THAT PARENT HQ....NO HQ EQUALS NO UMBRELLA
Besides that, each Headquarters (exception: Army-level HQs) must also make a supply check at the beginning of each turn. Like a normal combat unit, the Headquarters first checks supply based on the distance from its parent Headquarters; however, if that supply check fails, it then checks using the base ammo level listed for its side."

EXACTLY RIGHT.....HQS CHECK SUPPLY LIKE A NORMAL UNIT FIRST......FAILING THAT HQS CHECK AGAINST BASE SUPPLY.......NORMAL UNITS DO NOT CHECK AGAINST BASE SUPPLY EXCEPTION SPECIFIED IN MANUAL ARE INDIRECT FIRE UNITS
So, I believe the above also answers my earlier question and elaborates on Jason's reply too? :chin:
I BELEIVE IT ALSO VERIFIES MY POINT
Units must recover supply ONLY via HQ's in the same organization... and not from friendly, non-parent HQ's.

I love it when folks go to the CS Manual for answers... and find them! ;)

YES SIR

PLEASE NOTE CAPS DO NOT INDICATE YELLING JUST WANTED TO SEPERATE MY RESPONSES FROM THE ORIGINAL TEXT.

VE
"The secret to success is not just doing the things you enjoy but rather enjoying everything that you do."


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