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re: scenario design
11-15-2011, 04:40 AM, (This post was last modified: 11-15-2011, 04:43 AM by Jason Petho.)
#11
RE: scenario design
(11-15-2011, 03:16 AM)Glint Wrote: Thanks for the input KK and Jason. However, whilst appreciating your comments, if you are creating hypothetical scenarios, then surely a guideline is needed? For example, you wouldn't create a map around five miles square and put a corps oob in it? I've checked online and found the guidelines as in my original post, appreciate the input so far and respect the opinions, would just like to know what other 'hypothetical designers' work on?

This is adequate for an average frontage for hypotheticals.

http://www.balagan.org.uk/war/ww2/snippe...ntages.htm

Jason Petho

(11-15-2011, 04:01 AM)Kool Kat Wrote: The CS User Manual recommends that when developing an Order of Battle (OOB), that the organizational structure be within a company or battalion size. It goes on to state that "...you build an organization with a battalion as the minimum organization." - CS User Manual 1.03 (Page 84).

The manual refers to a minimum battalion size organization in order for the supply system to work properly.

Jason Petho


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11-15-2011, 05:06 AM,
#12
RE: re: scenario design
That's a brilliant link to my query Jason! Just the guidance I'm looking for.
It gives an ideal guide to designing an hypothetical scenario.
KK, - your comment regarding staying true to scale doesn't answer my question.
I'm talking about scale, - 1 hex = 250 metres, so, - what frontage should a battalion cover in defence? Your reply doesn't answer that?
I'm not trying to make anything difficult, I asked a simple question and Jason has given a sensible
answer. How can I read up on a battle when I am creating a hypothetical battle?
With all due respect, I've probably played around with designing scenarios a lot longer than some.
I asked a simple question, I just require a constructive answer!
11-15-2011, 05:08 AM,
#13
RE: re: scenario design
Hi Peter, as stated by others here it depended what you had available to defend with. I've read of single under strength companies having to defend miles of front line, I'm not sure quite how they did that.
However the following is from David Glantz's book on the battle of Kursk and it deals with the Russian defence. I think you could perhaps take this as a benchmark for a good defence and then adjust your hypothetical scenario as you think fit.
Anyway if it helps he states re the Southern Sector:-
The 37 rifle divisions manning the first defensive belt formed 350 battalion defensive regions, of which two or three arrayed in single or double echelon formed a regimental defensive sector 4 to 6 kilometers wide and 3 to 4 kilometers deep. Divisional defensive sectors averaged a width of 14 kms (from 6 to 12kms in especially threatened sectors) and a depth of 5 to 6kms.

So from this I think it is possible you could hopefully work out a rule of thumb for any unit in good defensive positions and moderate it occordingly for poor a defensive position.
Of course any other support that was available would also be arrayed amongst these battalions.
I hope that helps.

cheers Gordon
11-15-2011, 05:14 AM,
#14
RE: re: scenario design
Cheers Gordon, another useful answer! Cheers!
11-15-2011, 06:21 AM,
#15
RE: re: scenario design
I think the most difficult issue around orders of battle is the amount of incomplete, confusing and/or contradictory information, especially if one is researching the defeated (where records are lost), a lesser known combatant (eg Albania),or a combatant with a small administrative tail (eg Viet Cong). Governments will not infrequently hide or modify the truth.

The more sources one consults, the more likely one is, I think, to approach the truth. There is an argument for specialising in a particular field, if that appeals. Wikipedia, I have found, will generally be right more often than wrong.

The computer allows us to hugely expand our scope with its translation facility. I have recently used this to look at sources which are apparently not available in English. These gave me enough info for a credible OOB. Which, I hope, is enough.


11-15-2011, 11:40 AM, (This post was last modified: 11-15-2011, 11:41 AM by Herr Straße Laufer.)
#16
RE: scenario design
(11-15-2011, 05:08 AM)Gordons HQ Wrote: So from this I think it is possible you could hopefully work out a rule of thumb for any unit in good defensive positions and moderate it occordingly for poor a defensive position.
Of course any other support that was available would also be arrayed amongst these battalions.

Just think of those Italian and Romanian troopers with their lack of anti tank weapons on the Eastern Front? No wonder the Russians swept them back or overrun them during the Stalingrad campaign?
That was often one AT gun every mile or so.

Good points!

cheers

HSL

11-15-2011, 04:12 PM,
#17
RE: re: scenario design
Yeah, thanks guys for the input. I have another tool to aid my designing skills!
11-15-2011, 05:02 PM,
#18
RE: re: scenario design
Glint,

GordonHQ is essentially correct in his post of yesterday. In German army doctrine a battalion would cover 3000 to 4000 yards of front broken up into 3-4 company firebase areas. If you figure a yard close to a meter for game playability, at 4000 yards your covering about 16 hexes in game play. If your looking at pure game scale against a map, roughly 6.4 hexes cover a mile.

Sorry I don't have the link, but there is a useful site out there called the "Lone Sentry" which gives a lot of good info on all kinds of military stuff. Also if you have an old Panzerblitz game from AH published back in the early '70's, the manual in that game talks about typical frontage defenses in Russia.

Good Luck with your designs!!

Ivan the Big:smoke:
11-16-2011, 02:47 AM, (This post was last modified: 11-16-2011, 04:41 AM by Crossroads.)
#19
RE: re: scenario design
I spent a while trying to find the Panzerblitz manual in pdf format, but could not find it.

I found this, though:

http://www.balagan.org.uk/war/ww2/snippe...ntages.htm
http://www.balagan.org.uk/war/ww2/snippe...ations.htm

Neat stuff, eh?

EDIT: Just realised Jason had a link to these before me. Oops. :smoke:
[Image: 29F3B1129F294B8EA9F0BA9508F86A6C.jpg]Visit us at CSLegion.com
11-16-2011, 03:47 AM,
#20
RE: scenario design
(11-15-2011, 04:12 PM)Glint Wrote: I have another tool to aid my designing skills!

(11-15-2011, 04:12 PM)Glint Wrote: With all due respect, I've probably played around with designing scenarios a lot longer than some.

Maybe some day you'll share your scenario designs with others? :chin:

I noted one scenario... "Rame peninsula" ...listed under your profile - but no link to down load it?




Regards, Mike / "A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week." - George S. Patton /
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