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Hey Scud
01-01-2010, 11:21 AM,
#1
Hey Scud
I do understand your annoyance with the way the threads on the site have been going, but for the most part its been fairly back and forth. As long as someone is willing to keep DEBATING back then I see no reason to pull out the old suspension gun and pull the trigger. The line between debating and sniping is very fine in the beginning. Yes at the end it seems at the end real easy to see, but who shoots first isn't always found guilty its the guy shoots 2nd who gets caught.
I have felt that some topics get beat into the ground, but we seem to be heading towards a I don't like what you say so you get penalized for it. We should proceed with caution when we get to this point in a open forum with free debate. Just my thoughts on the hammer being set in the go position.

Chuck
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01-01-2010, 11:46 AM, (This post was last modified: 01-02-2010, 02:09 AM by Montana Grizz.)
#2
RE: Hey Scud
I've read a lot of threads in the last 3+ years (1 week, 10hrs, 22mins) and there has been some occasional smack, but seldom any real name-calling (stupid, ignorant, idiotic, etc.).

I would indeed draw a line at "name calling", but am having some problem with the new rules in terms of what might be preceived as "offensive"?

We might get a concensus of opinion in regard to what is "sarcastic", but terms such as "confrontational" and "aggressive" are "subjective" (judgement based on individual impressions and feelings and opinions rather than external facts).

Saying that someone is "wrong" could be considered "offensive". To say that someone is "ignorant of the facts", is not saying they are an ignorant person, but could be considered "offensive".

I have had no problem in regard to my posts because most of them have been a search for game related information. My responces to the posts of others have been my opinion in regard to the subject matter, but the very fact that I might object could be considered "objectionable".

To say that something "hurts a lot" is subjective. It is based upon the perception of the listener or reader.

I hope that Blitz officials will take each post and responce in serious consideration before forming an opinion as to what they might imagine to be offensive and worthy of sanction.

It is my further hope/expectation/faith/assumption that we will weather this current storm of "offensive" posts and continue as a club/organization for many more years to come.

Lord knows, I very much appreciate and enjoy the site and the gaming experiences. NOTE: Any reference to a "GOD" in this statement includes all "GODS" and in no way relects an opinon or any preference.

Pat


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One man can change the world . . . . .
with enough ammunition.

Give a man fire and he'll be warm for a day.
Light a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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01-01-2010, 04:41 PM,
#3
RE: Hey Scud
Chuck, you got it right,,, but hell,, sometimes theres a need to "stir the pot" I guess.. keeps the board interesting,,lolol Ive no memory of totally offensive batter,, myself,,,, but others may be more offended at things,, we have all seen, read, watched the battles on here,, the good, the bad, the ugly and yet here we are,, like em and leave em,, fantastic opponents, jerks, cheaters, winners, loosers, but all in all good, fellow wargamers. I myself can not think of a better place for me to escape to (ok except that fantastic nude butter churning video's that Mr Scud would ban me for 'da thirty' for talking about). Sooooooo for all my friends, for all my foes,, love ya, hate ya, but would be sad to not have you all,, you ALL make life better..
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01-01-2010, 05:34 PM,
#4
RE: Hey Scud
I for one have found some of the threads and behavior in them to be overly aggressive and self-righteous. People are seemingly attacked because they have the temerity to raise a subject that may have been debated in the past (how stupid of them!) or disagreed someone who vociferously propounds their own belief (in face to face conversation these are the folks who make up for weaknesses in their arguments by increasing volume or otherwise avoiding the merits of the content). Having been involved in the CS community for more than 12 years now and having known some of the guys on here longer than that, I can say that I personally feel this is somewhat cyclical in nature. And like other strange phenomena I, for one, tend to view it with mild bemusement. However, one effect that it has that I find most unfortunate is that it often dissuades new members or visitors (or even long time regulars) from engaging in a conversation because they feel unwelcome on the one hand or just don't think it's worth bothering with the behavior in the other. We are all guests here and should be careful how we treat one another and our host(s). Some people begin to think of this place as there home or part of their family, and as we all know, you will say or do things to and in front of your family that you would never do to people you don't know, or have just met. We are not family, and should treat each other with respect and courtesy. Leave the bickering in PMs or e-mail; communicating on the forum should be something that adds to the experience of this site, not something that must be endured to access its other benefits. This is no one's private forum and no one is right (or wrong) simply because they have a consensus among people willing to speak up on their side. Courtesy is the mark of civilization and it costs nothing.

I support the moderators doing whatever they feel is appropriate to restore some order for the majority.

That's just my opinion, only.

LR
If you run, you'll only die tired.

One hand on the wheel, and one in the flame,
One foot on the gas, and one in the grave.
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01-01-2010, 11:31 PM,
#5
RE: Hey Scud
Interesting view Larry.
I find myself agreeing with the mods too.
As Pat said in a different thread, too many "back at ya" posts in responses due to who the poster was and not what he wrote.

It may seem a bit draconean but, "martial law" tends to create limits that those under it must understand and then adapt to?

Ed
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01-02-2010, 02:16 AM,
#6
RE: Hey Scud
I went to bed last night wondering if I'd done the right thing. This thread makes me think I have.

Many of you don't see the "bad" posts because the moderators delete them before you can. The ones you have seen are mild in comparison to the ones you don't. For the past two months one of us has been doing that almost daily. Gets to a point where I dread logging on to the site anymore. I'm told it's one of the main reasons moderators end up quitting. The thought has crossed my mind.

The reward comes not just when people agree with me or another member, but rather when they feel they don't have to. Debates are what make the forums interesting. It's not my intention to curtail that.

If you're against the new rules, speak up. I'll listen. If you think I was too firm and insulting accept my apologies. I ask only that you consider my position. I'm getting it from both ends, those that don't think I'm being firm and others who are practically ordering me to take control.

So, speak up. Rewrite the rules and I'll consider revisions. It's our club, not mine, our forum. Whatever rules you think will make the moderators' lives easier I want to hear them. I won't, however, consider any changes regarding politeness, courtesy and respect. Something that 99% of you have ALWAYS displayed, just that right now I need 100%.

By the way, I won't apply the new rules to myself, provided of course no profanity. Say what you want to say.

I just want to add when I was asked to help moderate I never saw it as being a forum cop, I just wanted to help invoke and perpetuate interest in our hobby. Still do.

Thanks,
Dave
Resolve then, that on this very ground, with small flags waving and tinny blast on tiny trumpets, we shall meet the enemy, and not only may he be ours, he may be us. --Walt Kelly
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01-02-2010, 02:30 AM,
#7
RE: Hey Scud
Gents:

Honestly, I've pretty much “given up” on participating on the CS forums - except to find opponents. Way too much drama for me! And as a consequence, I'm less stressed and can enjoy my CS games more!

Each his own?

I've got too much going on in my life to be worrying about some poster flying off the handle because he did not “like” somebody elses response?

Lifes too short for all that mess?

Peace out all!
Regards, Mike / "A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week." - George S. Patton /
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01-02-2010, 03:38 AM,
#8
RE: Hey Scud
You've done a great job so far Dave and I, for one, appreciate your efforts.

It is difficult to form an opinion in regard to what posts are deleted and/or players sanctioned because I don't have the opportunity to read them and I assure you that is for the best.

I certainly hope that this will be the end of your trials and tribulations.

Pat

Give a man fire and he'll be warm for a day.
Light a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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01-02-2010, 03:48 AM,
#9
RE: Hey Scud
Thanks Pat, me too.

Mike West, I know you, we've played together and I have a lot of respect. Guys like you staying away from the forums is exactly what this is all about. Threads aren't all about debates. There's a good one up now that Peiper started. Interesting links to pics and videos. Check it out. Very low stress! I promise.

Dave
Resolve then, that on this very ground, with small flags waving and tinny blast on tiny trumpets, we shall meet the enemy, and not only may he be ours, he may be us. --Walt Kelly
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01-02-2010, 05:57 AM,
#10
RE: Hey Scud
Scud I understand, but don't take the job and complain later its hard or tough. The time for thought on that is before you start. You should have known by the turnover in Mods that it IS a hard job that gets no thank you from the people.

I'm wondering if the people who complain time and again are always the same. There does come a time when its not the person who there complaining about, but rather the person who is complaining. I've seen nothing lately to hammer a ban on someone about. It seems everytime somebody feeling get hurt that the hammer comes out and BAM somebodys banned.

I also understand that this is Jim's house and we're all guests here, but if people don't feel welcome here it will never a home for a wargame club just a stop over to find opponents to play against. I know that those banned may have pushed the enevelope some, but shouldn't there be a warning flag before a person is thrown out of the game 1st. I'm not saying these people didn't run thru the stop sign just that we should have a warning system.

Hurt feeling will always happen when 2 people don't see eye to eye. Some people have to get a thicker skinned to be in here, be prepared to defend your position and not run to the mods everytime somebody disagrees with you to cry foul. I think the extra rules are a waste of your time to write and even harder to justify with all the people here, except maybe a few.

Chuck
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