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!Normandy44 Beta Testing
04-23-2009, 03:49 AM, (This post was last modified: 04-23-2009, 04:08 AM by Dan Caviness.)
#1
!Normandy44 Beta Testing
!Normandy44

Hello to all you intrepid souls blasting your ways through the bocage!
Well...you may not QUITE be in the bocage yet...but that's the goal anyways.
My thanks again to everyone and I hope your having as much fun as Jb and I are.

I thought I would share a few early observations and see how everyone is doing with their team games. I'm playing Allies, all of them, so all this comes from their point of view.

My Frenchmen are kicking some B...T by the way...they appear properly motivated by the chance to reclaim their home soil!
Viva la France!cheers

I'd love to hear from some of the German players.

Von Luck and I are on Turn 13 or 14 I believe and if any of you are that far along your surely appreciating the cluster f...k that is the Allies trying to get from about Turn 10 to 16 or so when the final wave of the three wrap up.
Between trying to clear the beaches and clifftops, blasting your way through bunker by bunker, dealing with some 2000 or so LSTs/LCPs/LCTs etc, and trying to get organized and establish some divisional integrity the Allied player has his hands full at this point.
Everyone's engineers finding plenty to do?....lol...between minefields/blocks/blasting high walls and simply staying alive not to mention popping smoke every chance they get....those boys are earning their rations in this one.

(My Dad was a combat engineer during WWII, so I have to make sure his specialty gets good press!)

For me it's been a blast, but I have to admit it takes several sittings to get through it and the "number of saves" rule goes OUT the window in a game this size.

Jb and I are playing this with Extreme Assault on...and I have a couple of legendary Roadrunner/MWest types of hexes that cost me dearly...but I have finally just about gotten every beachline bunker and pillbox taken. Now if I can keep Jb from rolling back on them, I should be able to keep things going in the proper direction.
Two turns ago I was minus 2000 VPs or so, but now that I've grabbed some early objectives, that number has closed to almost zero pretty quick. The kicker for the Allied player is the timing. If you play it too cool and drag your feet early, the Axis player starts unfixing before your ready to deal with that, and if can cost you.

Overall there are some "problematic" areas along the beaches, and I'm going to adjust a few of those after we finish the beta tests. Many of the British/Canadian landing areas have continous "low wall" hexsides that are impassable to trucks, HQ's etc. Jeeps, commanders, tanks, carriers can negotiate them, but the larger truck types cannot. I thought when I designed those hexes the engineers could blow low wall hexes just like they can high wall.
Well, they can blow them, and it shows as blown on the 2D map mode, but they are still impassable so I think that is a glitch in the game. Still, it's my fix to make, so the game is more playable. If you look carefully you can find hexes to get up in ALL the landing beaches, but there are at least two of them that are hard to find. I'll fix that in the final tweaking. For now let me say that if your totally stymied email me and I can give you the routes that work for every landing beach. The final version won't be so tough to negotiate.
Sorry about this...I'm still not sure why engineers can blow low stone wall and yet it still remains impassable to trucks/HQ's/etc?

As for game play, I'm quite happy with the progress of my game with jb. I'm making some headway inland (just starting) and he is just starting to unfix and get some armor involved so that is right on schedule.

Overall, early impression, I'd say I have too many paratroops. I love them and the confusion they sow, but I believe the Brits especially contain too large a force. We'll see how handily jb dispatches them once he gets his Panzer Lehr involved. You do have the option of moving your paras towards the landings...and in some places I wish I had. Jb's about to get me shot....as the Allied player...since he's about to kill or capture General Gavin and the 82nd Airborne will never forgive me!:kill:
So be it...some reports claimed he was an SOB in any case!

Between the Yanks and the Brits...first impression on my part says I have too many tanks for the Yanks...and not enough for the Brits. As Chuck10mtn noted...he's getting slaughtered on the Gold/Juno landings...and it's true they are in a tight spot. I've used the majority of my smoke in those beaches to keep them moving forward until the armored reinforcements show up 2nd wave.
When I set the elevation delta for this map I wanted to do two things and I believe they are working as I hoped. First, with the large delta, there are entire sections of Omaha where you cannot get a vehicle up those cliffs. Exactly as planned. There are a couple of areas behind high walls that you can use once you clear them to get up in those areas...look for the dirt roads that extend down onto the sand hexes...
This makes the infantry get up those cliffs...just like the real fight...and it's tough but the way it was so I'm happy with that.
Second...anyone who plays with Dale Wagoner or any other good smoke player knows you can use smoke to deny spotting to defensive positions. As a matter of fact, if your good with it, it's almost cheating, and a few of the Rising Sun landings are made pretty easy with this tactic. Tarawa for one. I wanted to avoid that, and with the high positions and high delta on elevations, you can smoke in front of them, but you won't block their LOS to the rest of the beach. Really important to me, and that appears to be working well. You can still lay smoke right on them of course, and that halves their attack values, and I believe that is more in line with the intent and reality of the smoke used on the beaches at Normandy.

How about those NAVY guns boys?...lol...even a pillbox isn't gauranteed protection with those big devils...and if you catch a full stength platoon in a bunker...your dropping 50 or 60 attack values on those! According to most accounts, that is exactly what happened, and a big part of the reason the Germans abandoned some areas on the beach. I positioned those ships per a map I discovered online, and they are exactly where they should be, but I want to make sure they don't reach too far inland. I think the destroyers are fine, most of the cruisers, and only one or two of the battleships are going to be able to reach as far as Caen for example. All good. By that point the Allied player should be using all those 105mm's/155mm's/Priests and Sextons you carefully preserved and did not get shot to Hell while landing.
You DID do that right?...lol....

I made a mistake using the Churchill AVRE. It's a fine unit, and it was there historically, but it's tough to play. With a 100 point fire cost, and a movement somewhere between a JgPZ VI and a land turtle...it kind of sucks within the context of the game. I found out later that a lot of Centaur IV's were also instrumental in those areas, and I have them in the 2nd wave. I believe I'll be moving some of them up to the 1st wave to help out. The AVREs will stay of course, but maybe less, and replaced with the more mobile and surviveable Centaur IV.

So...while the Brits can use a few more tin cans early...I believe the Yanks could use a few less...on Utah specifically. I'm leaning towards cutting the number of Crocodiles, Aunt Jemima's and Crabs on Utah. One thing about all those "Funnies" as Hobart described them...they certainly won't fight well inland and will die quickly with their slow movement rates.

I'm also thinking I need to eliminate the few trucks I have landing with the paratroops. I don't think those gliders landed anything much bigger than a jeep, and the American stock battalions for those airborne units include trucks for some strange reason. They aren't much use behind enemy lines anyway, so I think I'll be deleting them.

Lastly, this scenario was originally created PRE Matrix CS, and for some reason when the scenario plays in CS, the infantry units defaulted to some early war variant types. The Yank Rifle Platoons are 1942 variant, and the Armored Infantry are 1941 variant. Not sure if that was my fault, but I don't think I made those choices. The only drawback on those is both units have reduced hard target attack values. It seems to make those engineers all the more crucial however, and I do have a lot of engineers in the game, so I think unless it really grinds everyone's gears I'm going to leave that alone.
I'll call it serendipity.:whis:

All of the above are simply early game impressions of mine, and I look forward to incorporating your ideas as well.:chin:

As always...well meant criticism....abuse...and digital slappings are solicited...Whip
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04-23-2009, 05:45 AM,
#2
RE: !Normandy44 Beta Testing
Nice post. Btw, if you need hex sides that can be traversed by infantry but not vehicles, you can also use escarpments (be sure to use Matrix WF map editor, Talonsoft doesn't have it for NW Europe).
That will be better than a high delta. Always use the lowest delta possible for your map to get maximum detail: ie the greatest height difference of the entire map divided by 12.

You can also use escarpments to make AT ditches (if you need them). Just place them on hexes of the same elevation (you won't see them) and use a gully at the same place. Now you have a gully that cannot be traversed by vehicles.

Good luck with the project. I'm working on a 155 turn monster scenario myself at the moment (Operation Veritable).

Huib
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04-23-2009, 07:41 AM,
#3
RE: !Normandy44 Beta Testing
Huib:

At the time I originally created this scenario escarpment wasn't an option. Your quite correct it would serve admirably for preventing vehicular movement up and across those hexsides. Maybe next time! But at over two years of work and running...I'm not starting over...lol...

The elevation delta at !Normandy44 serves two purposes however, the second being preventing smoke from totally blocking the German LOS on the shoreline emplacements.

I use hidden cliffside hexes on level ground in much the same way you use the escarpment, and it prevents any movement over that hexside. It does generate some irate players however who have no way of knowing WHY they can't traverse a given hexside.

I also find that the good old blocked hex works well as a tank trap, and has the advantage of being removeable should you want the option available to the player willing to try.

My thoughts on elevation deltas are a little different than yours. While I agree in principle you should scale the total change to the terrain your mapping, my number one priority with elevation shifts are their effect on LOS. I find LOS to be what "makes games work" and I will shamelessly modify any elevation when and where needed to make that LOS play out the way I'm envisioning. Realizing of course that whether your delta is 1 meter or 60....as long as you scale it proportionally....the effect on LOS is the same.
After that it's all just numbers.

I can't wait to see your monster project...those are always my favorites.

I was THIS close to scaling the entire Sicily Invasion but it's JUST barely outside the game's maximum capabilities for map size. I think it would be fun to model, but of course the game can only go so far.

Not sure if your testing your monster yet...but you may run into one phenomenon that I have noticed. That is with thousands of units on a map, and especially with Fog of War, your going to have long time delays on the starts of turns while the game engine plows through a few thousand spot calculations.

Thanks for your input.
Are you playing/testing !Normandy44 at this time?

I know we have three H2H games in progress, but I had not heard that you were one of the "brave souls" who are taking a year or so out of their lives to help make this a good scenario...lol....

Lessee...we have (that I know of)....Reddog....Chuck10mtn....Von Luck...Myself...and a few others I believe.
This one works well for teamplay, and I know at least one of those games is being ran in teamplay.

Keep plugging, and thanks.

Dan

ps: Your "Fall Braun Across the Maas" is KILLING ME....lol...I'm trying it as the German player against a formidable opponent...Dale Wagoner...and I'm having a hard time getting enough forces over the river to make it a good fight. I really like the variable vis/nightime rules you have in that one and it makes you rethink your tactics. I think though there is a game "glitch" that hurts the scenario, and perhaps you can help me in case I just don't get it. It seems as though the rafts can cross the full hexside deep water, yet cannot cross a blue hexside river? That has to be a game glitch. That really slows down the Germans. Then when you double the movement costs on all the various river transports for night movement....it takes a long time to ferry units over the Maas.
Again...none of this is your fault...it's either inherent in the game....or I just don't have the skills needed to make it work!....lol...
And lastly....if I had more starshells....I'd be killing more Canadians...

Nice work though. Thoughtful and unique.
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04-23-2009, 08:09 AM,
#4
RE: !Normandy44 Beta Testing
Dan Caviness Wrote:Huib:



I find LOS to be what "makes games work" and I will shamelessly modify any elevation when and where needed to make that LOS play out the way I'm envisioning.

Sometimes I do that too. Mostly when in the game you can't see over the trees of the hex in front of you when you're on a hill and when I know (because I've been there myself or something) the real LOS is better.

Dan Caviness Wrote:ps: Your "Fall Braun Across the Maas" is KILLING ME....lol...I'm trying it as the German player against a formidable opponent...Dale Wagoner...and I'm having a hard time getting enough forces over the river to make it a good fight. I really like the variable vis/nightime rules you have in that one and it makes you rethink your tactics. I think though there is a game "glitch" that hurts the scenario, and perhaps you can help me in case I just don't get it. It seems as though the rafts can cross the full hexside deep water, yet cannot cross a blue hexside river? That has to be a game glitch. That really slows down the Germans. Then when you double the movement costs on all the various river transports for night movement....it takes a long time to ferry units over the Maas.
Again...none of this is your fault...it's either inherent in the game....or I just don't have the skills needed to make it work!....lol...
And lastly....if I had more starshells....I'd be killing more Canadians...

I appreciate the comments. I did not have time to test the scn as German. Might well be that more ferries are required, or more use of crewed boats (they are faster) or something else to speed up the ferry process. The rafts indeed cannot cross hex side rivers (game flaw). Perhaps some hex side rivers/canals better be removed, especially those on the northbank of the Maas

Huib
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04-23-2009, 09:35 AM,
#5
RE: !Normandy44 Beta Testing
Huib:

Well I'm glad to know that the game engine itself is the problem with the rafts.

When you combine that with the double movement penalty for nightime movement on the barges and boats (I'm guessing this is the reason I'm only getting one hex per turn with the barges? The F2 unit dialogue shows a 50 point per deep water movement cost so I believe they should get two hexes per turn?) it really slows down the number of German units you can get across the Maas. I don't believe water becomes any more viscous after dark and the coefficient of friction remains relatively unchanged.

Yes...your map is a nightmare....combined with the chaos of nightime combat...it's one of the roughest scenarios I've ever tried to negotiate...Whip
Which is why I like it...lol...cheers

Still...the biggest problem with night games is it's hard as Hell to hurt each other. Half attack values, shooting at gunflash, artillery halved, quartered attacks, etc.
Having a plentiful supply of starshells allows you to hurt each other more efficiently.
Despite rumors to the contrary about the elegance of tactical wizardry and the arcane art of war....it's about hurting each other when it's all said and done... More starshells please! At least for the Germans on first side...after all they knew they were attacking at night...right?

I believe the new Matrix CS series solution(s) to riverine movement is overly elegant. They needed to improve on the rafts laying all over river sides and beaches problem, and they did. They came up with the new boats/rafts/barges/crewed boats/engineer trucks/engineers system. I see it, but in reality it's a bit complex. They could simply treat boats like trucks. Make all of them have drivers(pilots), and they can move without passengers. Or, if you like, put little feet or flippers on the darn things...lol...
IE, make them ALL crewed boats. Barges play like this, but with a one hex per turn movement rate....zzzz....snore....you never get anywhere...

Jason...can you help us?

Lastly, a LOT of the "special" functions in the game involve low percentage chances of success. I am in agreement and understand the neccesity of this. Blowing a bridge or high wall, building an IP in a hex, laying a light hexside bridge or medium if your a bridge building engineer unit...all these are low percentage chances. Perhaps Jason can help me understand why those low chances are not cumulative over multiple turns? I.E., if an engineer has a 20 percent shot at building an Improved Position in a turn, can't we make it 30 or 40 percent the next, ad infinitum?

I recall my first shot at the boot camp scenario for bridge building. For some reason I had ticked off my computer...and I spent 12 turns trying to build a medium bridge with two different engineer units...

Is a turn 6 minutes?
Is a turn 1 hour?
Neither...it's a pain in the arse when you don't get anything accomplished....let's consider at least making the next turn more likely to be a success!
:soap:
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04-23-2009, 05:45 PM,
#6
RE: !Normandy44 Beta Testing
Dan,

I agree with all points.
With the current game system I can only add more ferries and add some extra bridge engineers to speed up things and increase odds. I will also add some more starshells. In reality the Germans hardly used them in 1944/45, but in general they were better night fighters than the Allies: the only way to represent that in the game is with starshells. Back when I made the scenario I had less experience with night combat and starshells as a player. I now understand better how it works.

Huib
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04-23-2009, 10:25 PM,
#7
RE: !Normandy44 Beta Testing
Huib:

This appears to be a two way forum...lol...

I like the Maas scenario, and I feel with those minor "tweaks" you'll have a very enjoyable and well balanced scenario. Night fights are not popular in general, re: the plethora of unplayed Rising Sun night fights, yet once you learn the rythm they can be a new test and I enjoy that. Often the night fights turn into the old "blind man's bluff". (a popular kid's game in the states way back when I was a kid...late Jurassic-early Pleistocene era...which wasn't all bad actually...dating was a lot simpler when you dragged them by their hair into your cave after a quick clubbing...but I digress...;).
As soon as someone opens up and fires...they are lit up all over the map...and you better have more OP fire than the other guy if you want to win that game!

There are a lot of different ways to try and prosecute a night fight, but my favorite is to pop a starshell, light them up, and kill everything I see. Simple, direct, and effective. This happened a lot in night fights, and even though the game engine doesn't really model it as such, it also simulates a good old spotlight on an enemy position.

Of course...then the starshell drifts...you've lit yourself up...and that tactic can backfire...lol...

I've found on defense...when they start getting adapted to your positions and are loading up to punish you via gunflash...you can simply turn all your OP fire OFF...refuse to fire...let those few units immediately adjacent do their worst...at half attack value...and then punish them on your next turn...
Of course that one can backfire...it's situational...

With your variable visibility...it gives the first side player a good advantage and chance to take advantage of it. I like it. Another aspect of why this game is giving me a lot of trouble involves my opponent, who is difficult to out fox.

Lastly, your scenario puts a high premium on engineers and utilizing their unique abilities, which I always enjoy.

Regards,

Dan
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05-06-2009, 12:48 PM,
#8
RE: !Normandy44 Beta Testing
Update for all Normandy44 beta testers:

I've been in conversation with Chuck10mtn and wanted to help make public a couple of glitches he has noted. First, as discussed earlier, some of the beaches are difficult to negotiate (for trucks and HQ units) due to my unfortunate tendency to put low stone walls up.

Here is how you get up the tough ones:

1. Sword/Oboe: Blow the high walls adjacent hex 239,169
2. Gold/Love: Clear the minefields at hex(es) 198,169 and/or 199,169
3. Omaha/Dog Red: Blow the high walls at hex 78,157
4. Omaha/Dog White: Blow the high walls at hex 70,157
5. Omaha/Dog Green: Blow BOTH high walls at hexes 64,153 and 64,154

The last one on Dog Green may not be worth the time. You can access the roads up the cliffs on Dog White and Dog Red pretty easily from Dog Green.

I will be fixing this and adding a few more options after we wrap up beta testing. I have a nice list going (my thanks to those contributing) of tweaks but I won't list them all here. Most of the other changes involve improving gameplay balance and are not "glitches" as such. Von Luck has mentioned he has some units trapped by bocage as well, and once I get that isolated it will also be fixed.

My thanks to everyone for their help.

Dan
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05-13-2009, 09:25 PM,
#9
RE: !Normandy44 Beta Testing
Question and Update for Normandy44 testers:

Hey everyone...first question involves transports. This scenario was created well before the latest and greatest iteration of West Front...and when I started assigning transport I trimmed using the old one for one rule. These days, you can use the 2:1 ratio for carrying infantry. I also started by meticulously (sp?) trimming every halftrack, truck, tractor, jeep, bren, etc, to exactly the needed strength. (That has always been a pet peeve of mine...and I considered it sloppy designing NOT to do this)

Well...call me sloppy....or a woman...'cause I changed my mind.
(My abject apologies to all our female players out there...and I'd also like to apologize to all those Somalian Pirates I offended about seventeen posts ago...:O)

In a game this long...I eventually came around to the point of view that extra transports would not only be appropriate but improve gameplay. Whatever you land with (as Allies) or whatever you roll on the map with (as Axis) is all your going to have for 90 turns. My thought was this way you can actually fight some of those halftracks and other armed transports from time to time.

Lucky for me Von Luck prefers to shoot my tanks!

One other note from my game with Von Luck. While he is a very chivalrous player and of the highest integrity I note he doesn't shoot my unloaded LSTs/LCPs/LCT's, etc., etc. Well, if you can see them, you should feel free to shoot them. They are combat units....and have firepower. If I have 20 or 30 sitting 8 hexes off one of your pillboxes or beach bunkers....guess what I'm doing with them? You got it....I'm spotting.

So Mr. Von Luck....you should be less of a gentlemen...and blast away!

(I have an ulterior motive for this....I'm feeling pretty bad about blasting all his helpless and "transportless" static beach divisions as I roll inland...ouch...)
I am a point whore ("ho" for you Yanks out there) and will take any point I can get away with.

I'd like to close by apologizing to any and all "ho"s I just offended.
It takes one to know one is my only defense...(:O)

Peace and love but digital death to everone....lol...
Dan
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08-02-2009, 12:50 AM,
#10
RE: !Normandy44 Beta Testing
Thought I'd just make a quick post here to assure everyone I haven't forgotten about the H2H Normandy games being played. Also to solicit and encourage any others who are playing/testing.

I recently saw one of Umbro's AARs and realize if I want to detail the game Von Luck and I are playing it's going to take time and some work. That AAR is a tough act to follow, but it's worth it. The first thing I need to do is learn how you get those nice in game screenshots!Eek

Here is a "short" version/update on Von Luck and my !Normandy44 game

25 turns into the game and we've moved well past the beach landings. Based on our test game alone I've gathered over 30 fixes (6 pages handwritten) and suggestions to implement based on our experience.

I'm playing the Allies and we are currently at a high draw, and I'm pushing for a minor. 6220 VPs or something along those lines. Frankly that is higher than I'd hoped. I think the Allies should still be playing to get a draw at this point, forcing them to play savvy and push for Caen, St Lo, etc.

Some quick overall notes I'd like to compare with the others, who hopefully are still playing.cheers

1. I can and do enjoy large games, but the team game is best for this scenario. The Allied player goes through some brutally long turns between the second and third waves hitting the beaches. We knew that, but I'm reiterating it for anyone who is thinking of starting the scenario. It can break you.

2. The Allies may be too strong. Details to follow.

3. Bocage. It's what's for dinner...and it's tough to chew. While Normandy was a tough place to manuever and the map should be too...I've got numerous cases where hexsides and roads need tweaking to facilitate movement. I hope that hasn't been too frustrating for anyone playing. The version 2 will be easier to negotiate. Other areas are an absolute blast as long as you enjoy getting shot everytime you stick your head up!

Turn 25, zone by zone.

Utah Beach


We're tussling for St. Mere Igleis but I'm a long way from Carentan, which will be the next big push. Von Luck still owns the cliffs seperating Utah from Omaha, and he has one noteably stubborn group of wermacht boys with their 88's holding out in the cliff top pillbox that spots the world. I've dedicated a platoon or three of Shermans to keep his head down...but you can guess how that is working.

Utah has proven a (relatively) easy landing in our game, following history, but the move inland is tough and the Allies have a lot of trouble just trying to manuever and operate. Monumental traffic jam. Von Lucks' engineers have blown every bridge standing...and the wide areas of flooded swamp...man oh man...one hex forward....two backward...

The Allies have too many tanks in this area. That will be fixed.

Omaha Beach

Wow.
Oh boy.
Brutal indeed.

Played tough till the end, and I've got entire regiments of shot to hell boys, which are proving difficult to organize and use effectively. Still, we outnumber Von Luck here by a significant margin, and it is the hardest area for his armor to engage me until we start haggling over St. Lo. I'm a long way from St. Lo.
From Pointe Du Hoc to Corselles the wrecks are endless. The Allies pay for Omaha, as is proper.

Gold Beach

Now were into the British/Canadian end of Normandy.

I never enjoyed playing the Brits much, always thought the endless carrier units and vanilla rifle platoons were difficult to employ. That was before this game. The bren, and all the other British carriers were made for the bocage. They can negotiate bocage where other units can't, and in this scenario they are extremely effective. Anything you can use to move quickly on this map is a fantastic asset.

The other discovery I made was the ANGLO 88. I am now officially in LOVE with the British 17 pounder.

Von Luck and I are knee deep around Bayeaux and roughly in a line parallel to the landing beach between there and Caen.
His tanks are finding it easier to get to this area, but not as easy as Caen and the Juno-Sword zone.

Juno-Sword Beaches

Not trying to minimize these two landing zones' importance...but in our game they are playing as one now so it's easier to break it down and analyze them as a whole.
As Chuck10mtn (and others) have noted...you can get disemboweled on Juno.:cheeky: I used a lot of smoke trying to keep moving forward on Juno-Sword. That area over all (maybe even worse than Omaha) was a slaughterhouse.
Still...when the later waves land...especially the third...containing the Canadian 2nd Armored Brigade and the British 27th Armored Brigade...your starting to perk up quick. Even Von Lucks mighty Leopards have been declawed by the mighty Firefly-Wolverine one-two punch!Whip
Well...I shot three of them anyways...lol...he's not exactly running out...

Von Luck and I are sizing each other up outside Caen. I know what he's got in there (somewhat unfair since I put them there...lol...) and I'm NOT jumping into Caen until I have my ducks in a row.

Caen is shaping up to be the fight of the map.
As it should be.

Paratroop Status Mapwide

My para landings are a little too widespread and strong IMO.
Von Luck has been diverting a lot of infantry he could really use on the main line of resistance to deal with them and the final version will reduce their strength and also move the LZ's a smidgen closer to the beaches in some areas.

A game like this, as stated before, takes on it's own reality. There is no such thing as "historical" when you lay out some 60 miles of shoreline.

It's not over yet...but my impression after 25 turns against Von Luck is that the Allies need a bit of trimming down.

One other overall change I'm considering is to add some artillery battalions during the Turns 10 to 20 or so for the Axis player. Once the Allies move in and swallow up those coastal (and mostly fixed) batteries the Axis player doesn't have quite enough to keep Billy Yank's and Tommy Brit's head down like they should be. I've been able to play "rugby" with numbers and push. The Axis player needs to have the ways and means to slow them down through damage with artillery as the fight moves inland.

I'd like to solicit Jason to add a "destroy useless unloaded LSTs" hot button to the next version...cheers
It's a pain to arrow through all of them using "next available unit"...and this game was made for the "next available unit" key if you want to have a chance to use all your boys.

I'd like to hear from those still waging this fight, and thanks for all the help I've already gotten.

I think jb and I will be able to finish our test game by Turn 50 or so.
It's probable the scenario has too many turns, and likely I'll be cutting down the length based on your inputs.

Regards,

Dan
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