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Will the Bicyclists ever be downgraded in F40?
03-29-2007, 06:35 PM,
#11
RE: Will the Bicyclists ever be downgraded in F40?
There is a book about this topic but I don't have it. I founded this:

ROMMEL AND GUDERIAN AGAINST THE BELGIAN CHASSEURS ARDENNAIS: THE COMBATS AT CHARBREHEZ AND BODANGE 10 MAY 1940
Georges Hautecler, S,O,

This is a translation of a post-WWII Belgian staff study on the heroic stand of the Belgian bicycle troops in the Ardennes as they faced the armored might of Rommel and Guderian. Read how a single Belgian company stopped Rommel's advance cold for six hours. Contains orders of battle and a few photos.

If anybody has this book, please post some data.

Also I would note:
- Assault values of infantry compared against armor don't matter since alt assault rule is used.
- As I can see, standard Belgian company was armed similar to standard German company. Some German troops have lower soft attack/assault values since they had no mortars at the time (reserve troops). Belgians had less AT rifles/guns but this doesn't count in soft attack.
- I don't know if Belgian bicycle companies had mortars/heavy weapons, but German scout units on bicycles had them so can you provide some reference stating that they had no mortars/HMGs etc.

milicko
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03-29-2007, 07:36 PM,
#12
RE: Will the Bicyclists ever be downgraded in F40?
I founded the organization:
http://niehorster.orbat.com/021_belgium/...rd_01.html
http://niehorster.orbat.com/021_belgium/...rd_02.html
If you compare this with good German division (1st wave)
http://niehorster.orbat.com/011_germany/...welle.html
you will find they had less equipment in infantry units
But if you compare it with reserve German division
http://niehorster.orbat.com/011_germany/...welle.html
You will find they had more equipment in infantry units.
Pay attention on mortars!

Therefore, soft attack values seem logical:
German good infantry: 10
Belgian Chasseurs Ardennes: 9
German reserve infantry: 8

milicko
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03-29-2007, 07:53 PM,
#13
RE: Will the Bicyclists ever be downgraded in F40?
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03-29-2007, 10:01 PM,
#14
RE:Will the Bicyclists ever be downgraded in F40?
milan Wrote:...
...
At Bodange, the 5th company of the 2nd battalion of the 1st Chasseurs Ardennais regiment (capitaine Brocart) fights on the spot since they never received the retreat order.
...

milicko

Interestingly, they did not receive the retreat order because German Operation Niwi Fallshirmjaeger commandos had cut their commo with higher headquarters. "Friction" in war, at it's finest! (Source: Frieser, "The Blitzkrieg Legend.")
What made the Chausseurs d'Ardennes "weak" was not their fighting ability, but their retreat orders. I'm willing to guess that in multi strategy France '40 games such retreat orders will not be issued by the Allied commander.
A slight reduction in soft attack, suggested above is probably good.
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03-29-2007, 11:03 PM,
#15
RE: Will the Bicyclists ever be downgraded in F40?
Why would I reduce the level of the Belgian elite for an alternative scenario where they have the choice to move freely?
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03-30-2007, 03:56 AM,
#16
RE: Will the Bicyclists ever be downgraded in F40?
I've heard about this heroic stand. One unit, in a good position, did a nice job. What about the rest of them? Should all units get a 14 assault factor because one company did a good job? I don't know. All I know is, and I've said this before, those bicyclists are, on May 10, strategic weapons of the first order, with high mobility and combat factors, just about as good as the best German mechanized infantry. You like it that way, you got it. von ege Eek

"There is a book about this topic but I don't have it. I founded this:

ROMMEL AND GUDERIAN AGAINST THE BELGIAN CHASSEURS ARDENNAIS: THE COMBATS AT CHARBREHEZ AND BODANGE 10 MAY 1940
Georges Hautecler, S,O,

This is a translation of a post-WWII Belgian staff study on the heroic stand of the Belgian bicycle troops in the Ardennes as they faced the armored might of Rommel and Guderian. Read how a single Belgian company stopped Rommel's advance cold for six hours."
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03-30-2007, 04:31 AM,
#17
RE: Will the Bicyclists ever be downgraded in F40?
"Yes... Someone to lay a bit of stick about, then..."

You are a very funny guy Liebchen. You ever thought about letting go of wargaming and doing a stand up comedy routine in Vegas? von ege :cool2:
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03-30-2007, 04:37 AM,
#18
RE: Will the Bicyclists ever be downgraded in F40?
"They were formed in the early 1930's and their mission was to fight an ennemy in the Ardennes region, which is a quite "tough" region (ask the American veterans who fought there in 1944 during the Battle of the Bulge). They were composed of men living there, so they knew the region quite well. Although their mission was to arrass the ennemy (delaying actions, ambushes, sabotage,...), like commandos, they were equiped like ordinary divisions. They had 75 mm guns (24 of them were Bofors 75 mm M34 montain guns), probably 105mm field guns, T13 tank destroyers and T15 light tanks, trucks (FN 63C-4weel drive, GMC trucks)."

All right, I stand corrected. Obviously those fellows just didn't have bikes. von ege ::cool:
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03-30-2007, 08:17 AM,
#19
RE: Will the Bicyclists ever be downgraded in F40?
If you look at the first version of the oob the Chasseurs have bicycles and trucks...

But later I discovered that they were mainly equipped with bicycle. And by the way I don't see why a bicycle unit couldn't get a 9 in soft?

In the first version they had:

hard: 4/0
soft: 9/1
def: 12
assaut: 14

The new version:
4/0
9/1
14
14

And just in case you would not know it the def rate is used only when they are in traveling mode. when they go on foot they work as every other infantry unit: 16 in defense.

So you are complaining about the fact that they didn't change rating from the first version to the second? :whis:
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03-30-2007, 08:26 AM,
#20
RE: Will the Bicyclists ever be downgraded in F40?
"So you are complaining about the fact that they didn't change rating from the first version to the second?"

I'm not complaining anymore. The notes in this thread have convinced me that those fellows deserve good ratings. von ege :whis:
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