• Havoc
  • Caius
  • redboot
  • Rules
  • Chain of Command
  • Members
  • Supported Ladders & Games
  • Downloads


Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
France '14 - Von Moltke's Indecisiveness - Feedback
11-14-2015, 06:02 PM, (This post was last modified: 11-28-2017, 01:23 PM by BigDuke66.)
#1
zicon 3  France '14 - Von Moltke's Indecisiveness - Feedback
Map
- Fort Pont Saint-Vincent at 15,68 is at the wrong place, it should be further West on 12,69 and that hex should be set to 400 meters like the hexes to the West of it.

- Add exit hex(between 50,64 & 54,64 as that was roughly the area reached by the German XXI. Korps & the 8. KD) for the Germans on the south map edge, the order of the 6. Armee for the 24th August was to reach the road Charmes - Rambervillers, this will also bring the German player to drive is troops south in the historical attempt to cut off French forces in the Vosges while still holding a front against Nancy.



Germans
- 6. Armee HQ should be released as it was moving south over the course of the battle. It should start at about hex row 25 on the map edge as it was directing the battle from Hellimer what is east off map. It should be released on the 21st as it moved on that day to Dieuze what is at row 44 off the map to the East.
If a free movement is not wanted, maybe a withdrawal and reinforcement could be made to remove and add the HQ again on the map edge.

- Move the 10. Ersatz-Division a bit ahead(about 1 turn movement distance) on the road to the South-West as it reached the "Delmer Rücken" around the same time the bav. KD arrives there(by afternoon), add some fatigue as the formation was tired because it had marched since 4.00 in the morning.

- While the French position look good, the German line should start further back and more East, with the XXI. Korps and 31. ID Off-map at the start and the left end(6. b. ID) of the German line south of Han(Han-sur-Nied).
The 6. b. ID roughly attacked south aiming for Delme and East of it and it did cross the line Morville-Lucy on 8.00 in the morning and marched over Bacourt & Prevocourt south and did not find the enemy before it reached the Delme area, it saw that the enemy was already retreating south. It's commander even asked the higher CO if he could turn his left wing to the east to support the 5. b. ID that was having trouble in the forest west of Oron but that at first was declined but later as the action at the II. b. Korps demanded a shift of weight to Château-Salins the CO of the 5. ID take the offer of the 6. ID to support them and to attack the enemy position south of Oron from behind, that showed some effect by 2.00 in the afternoon as the enemy retreat. By 4.00 the two divisions joined hands at Faxe with the enemy in full retreat to the southwest. After a short break to regroup the 6. ID and a bit rest for the 5. ID but it advanced further up until midnight, the most forward line for the II. b. Korps at night ran from Delme to a point north-west of Château-Salins.
The 4. b. ID on the left of the II. b. Korps started about 4-8 km away from the enemy lines and also advanced south till the forest north of Marthil from were it saw French artillery firing on the left flank of the 3. b. ID, the 4. b. ID started its artillery and assaulted at once and by 8.00 it was developing again the line Château-Bréhain - Eschen, it continued to assault the main enemy position o the higher ground and by 11.15 in the morning the line Château-Bréhain - Eschen was conquered.
The 3. b. ID started its attack around 7.30 in the morning when elements of the II. b. Korps(likely troops of the 4. Ersatz-Division) those few of the on its left reached Conthil, despite heavy counter attacks of the French Bewingen(south-west of Morhange) was taken on 2.00 in the afternoon.
Overall as the German advanced already at 5.00(except 10. Ersatz-Division that marched already on 4.00 and 3. b. ID that advanced on 7.30 in the morning) so their positions should be further ahead than shown on these maps and they should have formed to attack and not spread out to defend with the exception that the 3. b. ID seems to have attacked out of there defensive positions.
Now XXI corps should arrive much further south, 31. ID should come in on the evening of the 20th August between hex 61,43-46 and 42. ID should come in on the evening of the 21th August around hex 61,53-56.
(Details for German positions "Der Weltkrieg 1914 bis 1918" Volume 1, p. 211-213 covering the 19th August(previous pages cover 16th-18th August give also details)and Map 4 that fits to the description of the German positions, page 263 and following pages describe the initial phase of the German offensive / details for French positions "Der Weltkrieg 1914 bis 1918" Volume 1, p. 250-251 & 445 and map on p. 442-443, also the map for the 19th August on "Cartographie 1914 - 1918" http://www.carto1418.fr/19140819.php )

- Arrival & location of the I. b. Reserve Korps should be adjusted too, the 5. RD was at Lagarde(east of 61,58) on the 23rd were it rested and likely moved on the 24th to Luneville(47,70), and of the 1. RD the 2. Reserve-Brigade was designated on the 23rd to encircle the fort of Manoviller(59,70) while the rest remained east off map and arrived next day at(59,79).
See map for all recommended adjustment to German positions & arrivals:
[Image: bXExOlJ.jpg]

- Remove I b. Korps & Garde-Ersatz Division as they didn't get far enough West to appear on map.

- The missing Landwehr-Division could(it comes late on the map it it's maybe not worth the trouble) be added if wanted, it comes on map on the 24th at 58,29.
The division was formed out of Landwehr troops from Gemersheim and Zweibrücken at first called "Verstärkte Bayerische Landwehr-Division“ but also know as "Division Wening" after its CO.
Structure on the10th Dezember 1914 was:
13. Landwehr-Infanterie-Brigade
Landwehr-Infanterie-Regiment 8
Landwehr-Infanterie-Regiment 10
Festungs-MG-Trupp IV (Germersheim)
14. Landwehr-Infanterie-Brigade
Württembergisches Landwehr-Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 122
Kombiniertes Landwehr-Infanterie-Regiment Parst (vier Bataillone) der Landwehr-Infanterie- Regimenter 1 und 2
Festungs-MG-Trupp V (Germersheim)
Kavallerie-Ersatz-Abteilung
2. Garde-Ulanen-Regiment
1. Landwehr-Eskadron/II. Armee-Korps
Feldartillerie-Abteilung 22 (2. Batterie)
Landsturm-Batterie Landau
1. Landwehr-Pionier-Kompanie/I. Armee-Korps
1. Landwehr-Pionier-Kompanie/II. Armee-Korps


French
- French reinforcements appearing on the Eastern map edge should also be repositioned, the French 16th corps should come in south of the Rhine-Marne canal and the French 15th corps should come in between Moyenvic and the Rhine-Marne canal. Best would be on the roads, yb this the French player can decide if he wants to move the road down to get distance between him and pursuing Germans or he can spread and try to hold the ground.

- The French 73DR on the West edge of the map should be re-positioned, I crossed the river at Pont-a-Mousson and only a part of the division was released, maybe the division can be placed so that it unfixes completely if the Germans try to cross in that area. It should be unfixed on the 23rd as it was opposite of Dieulouard on the 24th.

- Checking the maps for that area between the 21st and 24th some French units should be considered to be incorporated into the scenario:
268ème régiment d’infanterie
290ème régiment d’infanterie
Both regiments were from 9th corps 4th Army but likely still in the area when the need for troops arose, they seem to be detached to 2nd Army.

4th battalion of the 89ème régiment d’infanterie territoriale(missing in OOB)
Could have been directly attached to 2nd Army HQ, was later send further back to Colombay what is slightly off the Western map edge

4th battalion of the 42ème régiment d’infanterie territoriale(missing in OOB)
Seems to have been as garrison in Nancy.

64e Division de Réserve
Wikipedia only found a 64e division d'infanterie that had the same subunits as the in-game OOB, this division was transported to the Bayon area(almost on the Southern map edge) from 19th to 24th so maybe units could arrive there over the course of the game but stay fixed as the division was still being concentrated there.

74e Division de Réserve
Wikipedia only found a 74e division d'infanterie that had the same subunits as the in-game OOB, was transported from 19th to 23rd to Charmes(beyond the Southern map edge) and Bayon(almost on the Southern map edge). In this case similar to the above division, a part of the division could arrive over time at Bayon, maybe simply half the division.

2e Division de Cavalerie
According to Wikipedia:
August 17 - 21: movement eastward; engaged in the battle of Sarrebourg, fighting of Gosselming and Saint-Georges.August 21 - 26: withdrawal to Lunéville and Rozelieures, August 24 and 25 fight Rozelieures.
Looking at the maps the unit should likely not arrive before 23rd, it should come in on the South-East corner of the map.

10e Division de Cavalerie
According to Wikipedia:
August 20th - 26th: retreat to Rozelieures, fight on August 24th and 25th.
Unit could maybe be considered to be added as its retreat to Rozelieures(what is beyond the Southern map edge) may only have let it shortly be in the area that the map covers. If it's added the unit should likely not arrive before 23rd, it should come in on the South-East corner of the map.

6e Division de Cavalerie
According to Wikipedia:
17 - 21 August: offensive on Sarrebourg; engaged in the battle of Sarrebourg.
August 21 - September 8: withdrawal to Rozelieures; engaged in the battle of Mortagne. Fight on August 25th.
Likely barley and shortly on the area that the map covers so adding it should be not considered unless balancing forces to do so.

For the sake of completeness I mention that the 35th and 34th Infantry Brigades were on the map, while the former was part of 18th Infantry Division the later was part of the 17th Infantry Division.
Wikipedia notes that the 18th division with its 34th & 35th brigades defend the area of the Grand Couronné, explanation could be that both divisions were half transported North when the need for troops arose, likely the 34th was put under 18th Infantry division command.
As the 18th is currently completely in the game but with its original layout I see no need to change the brigades as there seem nothing to gain but work.

- With the addition of the missing French units and the removal of the German units the overall balance shifts, it shoudl be consideec red, that means putting some casualties and fatigue on those French units that appear on the East map edge and being chased by the Germans.



Gameplay
- While the recommended arrival positions of the reinforcements already demand a more Southern attack direction by the Germans, the victory point locations should also be adjusted to support this, those North-East could be lowered to 100 points, VPs North of Luneville could be kept while Luneville should get even more points, and VPs of 500 or more should be added south of Luneville to drive the Germans into the historical reaches of his offensive. At the same time those VP close to but East of the Moselle should be slightly raised to force the French to hold a line East of the Moselle like he historically did and not fall back behind the Moselle line. If the French gives up everything East of the Moselle line the scenario should end in a major victory for Germany. See map below for details
[Image: SYmi8x7.jpg]
Quote this message in a reply


Messages In This Thread
France '14 - Von Moltke's Indecisiveness - Feedback - by BigDuke66 - 11-14-2015, 06:02 PM

Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)