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Panzer Battles 2 - The Official Teaser Thread - Printable Version

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RE: Panzer Battles 2 - The Official Teaser Thread - ComradeP - 11-05-2015

In most scenarios in Kursk, the Soviets start spread out in platoon strongpoints (bunkers/trenches) and the Germans start with their infantry merged into companies.

There is a casualty modifier (increase) for units with more than 125 men, and all regular infantry companies have around 150 men. To avoid the penalty, you tend to split the companies up in two units as the Germans. 

A regiment has between about 50 (German infantry regiments) and about 100 (SS PzG regiments with a variety of support assets) units, but in most cases you can divide that number by 2 or 3 to get to the number of on-map units.

A division has between about 200 and a bit over 300 units (SS), and you can divide that by 2 or 3 again to get to the number of units that are actually on the map.

Guards regiments have AT, MG and SMG units assigned to them, which increases the number of Soviet units that are on the map. The Germans only have MG and possibly pioneer assets assigned to their regiments/battalions.

A typical German battalion consists of an HQ, 3 infantry companies, an MG unit, battalion mortars as well as AT and infantry guns for the motorized units. With the companies split in two, you end up with 9 (regular infantry) to about 15 (SS) units in a battalion.

With everything split up except for the mortars, Guards have 17 units in a battalion: an HQ, 3 infantry companies (9 platoons), 3 MG units, 2 AT Rifle units, a two gun AT section and battalion mortars.


RE: Panzer Battles 2 - The Official Teaser Thread - Strela - 11-06-2015

GerryM,

They say a picture is worth a thousand words. Go to this page on John Tiller's site and download the (free) Visual Order of Battle done by Mike Avanzini.

http://www.johntillersoftware.com/PanzerBattles/BattlesOfKurskSouthern.html

There are also a heap of preview files available for you to look at.

To help a little, platoons are the basic manuever element. In normal play, it is preferable to have platoons combined into a company and this comes with benefits and costs as laid out by ComradeP.

Hope seeing the Visual OB will give you a feel for scale, just remember 'like' units in the same formation can combine.

David


RE: Panzer Battles 2 - The Official Teaser Thread - GerryM - 11-06-2015

(11-06-2015, 03:20 AM)Strela Wrote: GerryM,

They say a picture is worth a thousand words. Go to this page on John Tiller's site and download the (free) Visual Order of Battle done by Mike Avanzini.

http://www.johntillersoftware.com/PanzerBattles/BattlesOfKurskSouthern.html

There are also a heap of preview files available for you to look at.

To help a little, platoons are the basic manuever element. In normal play, it is preferable to have platoons combined into a company and this comes with benefits and costs as laid out by ComradeP.

Hope seeing the Visual OB will give you a feel for scale, just remember 'like' units in the same formation can combine.

David

Thanks to both of you for your answers. Looks like I would be able to handle the battalion-level scenarios. I checked the documents and found out how many of those are in Kursk (assuming a Battalion listed scenario means no more than a battalion).

David, can you give me a ballpark figure for battalion or smaller scenarios in Normandy?

Also with a game of this scale, could you have future games that touch on other parts of Kursk and other parts of Normandy. I understand that PzC games covered the whole but seems you could a few games out of one PzC game?

Gerry


RE: Panzer Battles 2 - The Official Teaser Thread - Strela - 11-06-2015

(11-06-2015, 04:18 AM)GerryM Wrote:
(11-06-2015, 03:20 AM)Strela Wrote: GerryM,

They say a picture is worth a thousand words. Go to this page on John Tiller's site and download the (free) Visual Order of Battle done by Mike Avanzini.

http://www.johntillersoftware.com/PanzerBattles/BattlesOfKurskSouthern.html

There are also a heap of preview files available for you to look at.

To help a little, platoons are the basic manuever element. In normal play, it is preferable to have platoons combined into a company and this comes with benefits and costs as laid out by ComradeP.

Hope seeing the Visual OB will give you a feel for scale, just remember 'like' units in the same formation can combine.

David

Thanks to both of you for your answers. Looks like I would be able to handle the battalion-level scenarios. I checked the documents and found out how many of those are in Kursk (assuming a Battalion listed scenario means no more than a battalion).

David, can you give me a ballpark figure for battalion or smaller scenarios in Normandy?

Also with a game of this scale, could you have future games that touch on other parts of Kursk and other parts of Normandy. I understand that PzC games covered the whole but seems you could a few games out of one PzC game?

Gerry

Hi Gerry,

Keep in mind battalion is very small when it comes to size of scenario. I would estimate 10 - 15%. Regiment/Brigade is more of a sweet spot and there would probably be another 25%-30% at this scale. Regiment & Division are the most prevalent.

David


RE: Panzer Battles 2 - The Official Teaser Thread - Strela - 11-07-2015

Well there has been a little more commentary this last week (thanks GerryM!) so I better post something further this week....

It's more scenarios this week. Last week we covered a lot of the actions in July. This week we are going to cover just one battle. Here is our mood photo for this week. It was originally a black and white shot and has been beautifully colourised by those clever artists at https://www.facebook.com/WW2-Colourised-Photos-393166910813107/photos_stream?ref=page_internal

Some amazing portraits of the fighting man here - including the captured Germans;

[Image: PB%20Graphics%20310.jpg]




All of the 7 scenarios covered today are based on the British Operation Bluecoat or its aftermath;

[Image: PB%20Graphics%20311.jpg]




The first scenario, 'Operation Bluecoat - Baffing up the Charlie Love' is the longest scenario we have ever done in Panzer Battles. It is a 144 turn marathon covering July 30 to August 3rd, a total of 5 days. There is a special PDT file which truncates the day and night cycle.

The scenario description is as follows;

Caumont, West of Caen: July 30th, 1944. (Scenario Size: Corp. Head to Head or Team Play)  Operation Bluecoat was to be the complementary offensive to the USA's July 25th Cobra operation. With the success of Cobra evident by July 28th, the British accelerated Bluecoat by two days and planned to kick off on July 30th. VIII Corps was to be the flank guard for XXX Corps which was to attack towards Villers Bocage, but when VIII Corps unexpectedly broke through the German defenses on an army boundary, all effort was put behind them. With the road to Vire open the Germans had to pull II SS-Panzerkorps out of the line at Caen and attempt to close the gap between the German armies. This multi-day campaign will require players to carefully husband their forces as no replacements will be received. Fresh forces will arrive regularly, but will have to go to the position of most need. The British will have to push hard early on to capture the key locations before the SS arrive. Historical note: 'Baffing up the Charlie Love' means 'Move fast up the Centre Line of the advance'. Centre Line in the British 1944 phonetic alphabet is 'Charlie Love'



Here is an overview of the starting positions and size of map at the highest zoom out (remember you can see this full size with a right click or touch device). The US Army was on the western side facing the Fallschirm-jaeger while the British faced the 326th Infanterie Division. Both sides initially didn't realise that their army boundaries were aligned and were to play a significant part in the operation;

[Image: PB%20Graphics%20312.jpg]




Here is the British 11th Armoured and 15th Infantry Division setup before heading south. The German 326th Infanterie Division had just replaced the 2nd Panzer Division in the 'quiet sector' in front of Caumont and the British surprised the German defenders when they managed to move three armoured divisions from the area around Caen undetected;

[Image: PB%20Graphics%20313.jpg]




This monster scenario has gone through 5 revisions and a heap of play testing. The original for example was 170 turns long (thanks Dennis & Ed for actually playing it through and getting a draw!). It's an exercise in stamina, particularly for the German where the 326th Infanterie Division is pretty much destroyed in the first 24 hours of the British offensive. This is what happened historically. Both sides get substantial reinforcements with the Guards Armoured Division arriving for the British and the 21st Panzer Division and elements of the 9th, 10th & 12th SS Divisions for the Germans.

Here is an example of a play test after 33 turns and the British have managed to reach the high ground at Hill 309 near the Bois du Homme. Note the Jagdpanthers shown - a whole company as well as a company of King Tigers took part in the battle. This screen shot is taken from a slightly older version of the game;

[Image: PB%20Graphics%20314.jpg]




Bois du Homme is a 12 turn scenario that covers the ill fated attempt by 21st Panzer to take back Hill 309 from the Churchills of the 4th Coldstream Guards. The Germans originally had some success, but the dogged defence supported by Allied artillery and Typhoons tipped the balance;

[Image: PB%20Graphics%20315.jpg]




The next 12 turn scenario covers the 11th Armoured Divisions push across 'Dickies Bridge' and the attempt to clear Beny Bocage and the push on to Catheolles. The British had expected to have real difficulty getting across the Souleuvre river and planned to assault Catheolles from the north. British armoured cars managed to advance down the German army boundary and capture an unguarded bridge that was subsequently christened Dickies Bridge in honour of its captor. This allowed the British to roll up the defences along the river and secure the crossing points;

[Image: PB%20Graphics%20316.jpg]




Kampfgruppe Frohlich is an interesting little meeting engagement pulled together by Glenn Saunders. The British were probing to the west with the Cromwell tanks from 2nd Welsh Guards, part of Guards Armoured Division. They ran smack bang into Kampfgruppe Frohlich; a scratch formation pulled together of arriving SS and retreating Wehrmacht troops;

[Image: PB%20Graphics%20317.jpg]




la Bistere - Tigers Marsch! is a 8 turn free for all covering the advance north of the Tigers of SS-sPz-Abt 102. The Germans decimated the 2nd Northants Yeomanry that had been probing down the highway to Vire. The Germans advanced all the way to la Bistiere destroying the bulk of the British forces;

[Image: PB%20Graphics%20318.jpg]




Les Grands Bonfaits - Nedforce is another 7 turn Glenn Saunders special. This scenario covers the German attempt to push the British back off the high ground near le Busq;

[Image: PB%20Graphics%20319.jpg]




Finally, the British had a real opportunity to take Vire during Operation Bluecoat. General Montgomery decided to leave the town to the following US Forces as it was nominally in the US sector. This decision was to cause heavy casualties for the Americans when they finally went to capture and clear the town on August 5th. The Germans in the meantime managed to reinforce the town with elements from both the 3rd Fallschirm-jaeger Division and 353rd Infanterie Division;

[Image: PB%20Graphics%20320.jpg]




This is a great mix of scenarios and hopefully it's obvious that at least 3 of them are battalion level. Some interesting fighting for hilltops and through the bocage. The new modifiers for firing from height really make the hill tops critical for controlling the terrain around it.

Have a good weekend all,

David


RE: Panzer Battles 2 - The Official Teaser Thread - GerryM - 11-07-2015

(11-06-2015, 10:35 PM)Strela Wrote: Hi Gerry,

Keep in mind battalion is very small when it comes to size of scenario. I would estimate 10 - 15%. Regiment/Brigade is more of a sweet spot and there would probably be another 25%-30% at this scale. Regiment & Division are the most prevalent.

David

Thanks David.


RE: Panzer Battles 2 - The Official Teaser Thread - ComradeP - 11-07-2015

Wow! 144 turns!

I was happy to read that the Cherbourg scenario was shortened due to the possibilities of ahistorical moves when given enough time and the possibility of an attack stopping "early" due to not getting replacements, so I'm really interested in seeing how this scenario will play out. In particular: If both sides can sustain the losses they will take and keep going, and if the presumably smaller German armour units can hold out against the masses of British armour for this long.


RE: Panzer Battles 2 - The Official Teaser Thread - Xaver - 11-07-2015

Thanks for the friday/saturday report.

Still no complete the scen report... and we have a lot of diferent situations and units... for example i spot an AT infantry unit in fallschirmjager... more effective than soviet AT rifles but shorter range???

Talking about armor... maybe new feature is something to add in PzB a replacement/repair system??? something like use night turns to receive replacements and repair vehicles??? allies doing like in PzC not using action points in night turns and germans with a variable % to represent their night movements???.

Now wait another week but the scens are now less to review hehehe.


RE: Panzer Battles 2 - The Official Teaser Thread - ComradeP - 11-07-2015

Do you mean the Panzerschreck platoon Xaver? I sure hope those are more effective than Soviet AT Rifles or Jerry's in trouble!


RE: Panzer Battles 2 - The Official Teaser Thread - phoenix - 11-07-2015

Looks mammoth. All really interesting. Will there be some form of repair and replacements implemented if you're now doing 5 day fights?

Peter