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Full Version: Spotting and unit quality - does it matter?
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[hirr Wrote:
Leto]
Seriously, I've found the higher the level of sniper, the more they can see.  Therefore, a green sniper will only be able to detect a squad hiding in rubble from 10-15m away, while an Elite sniper can detect hidden infantry units from further off.


I was intrigued by this statement from another thread - heard it often, sort of believed it, but it has the feel of CM myth - makes real life sense, hard to verify without testing in controlled circumstances, easy to convince yourself it's true on circumstantial evidence.

Did a quick test: 2 platoons walking toward a sniper, starting at 2km, ordered to move straight ahead.  Tested it a few times with a conscript sniper, a few times with an elite sniper.

The result, and a few surprising corollaries:

1)  There seemed to be no difference between conscript and elite snipers in spotting.

2)  Even more surprising:  The units came into view, as far as I could tell, at the EXACT same time in every trial.  Thus, there doesn't seem to be a random element to spotting.  Unit 'A' will always spot a given unit 'B' at a fixed distance, depending on the movement and terrain.  The first squads spotted always came into view at something like 1650m in this case.  I suspect that some will argue that this is crazy and can not possibly be true, but run a quick test and convince yourself - I could be wrong, but in the tests I ran, the units popped into view in the same instants every trial.

3)  Units under command of a leader with stealth ratings matters a LOT.  One platoon leader had a +1 stealth rating, the other +0.  The +0 platoon came into view a few hundred meters quicker.

4)  Units out of command are spotted quicker, even if the leader has a +0 rating.  There was one squad in each platoon that was out of command.  These came into view first, by a couple hundred meters.  Unit in command = stealthier.

Try spotting units hiding in scattered trees or rubble.....things that are normally close to undetectable until you're very close. That's where I think you might see a difference.
Not exactly what you asked for, but I tried it with platoons approaching through scattered trees - same result - the spotting distance goes down considerably, but units are spotted at the exact same time/place every time, regardless of unit quality. That's what makes me think there's no difference - the fact the units show up in exactly the same place each time. It's possible that there's some difference that applies only in certain situations - i.e. spotting units in particularly good cover or something, but that seems a little too subtle.

My experience with CM is that stuff is generally modelled more simply that I think, but the complexity of the game lends itself to identifying all sorts of subtleties of modelling that just don't exist (like for instance, all the theories of the best way to un-immobilize vehicles, when in fact, it seems like the de-immob as a result of a random die roll). Haven't tested it enough, but I strongly suspect the unit quality - spotting thing is another such thing. Might run a few more tests to make sure. Haven't tested the flip side at all, either: does unit quality matter in remaining concealed - that is, is an elite unit harder to spot?

The Coil Wrote:
I was intrigued by this statement from another thread - heard it often, sort of believed it, but it has the feel of CM myth - makes real life sense, hard to verify without testing in controlled circumstances, easy to convince yourself it's true on circumstantial evidence.

Did a quick test: 2 platoons walking toward a sniper, starting at 2km, ordered to move straight ahead.  Tested it a few times with a conscript sniper, a few times with an elite sniper.


This is the bankhand version of a test I wanted POS to run. Where quality makes a difference (though I have never tested it personally) is in the ability to be spotted. Care to run a few tests on that - particularly in movement through scattered trees, wheat, etc. My specific question to POS was comparing different quality of sharpshooters - I was looking for some hard distances which a sniper could run through rough/open/brush/steepe without being spotted - I am sure that varies by experience level.

Here's my standard reply to anybody who's in danger of becoming a numbers-junkie -
Mate, don't get too obsessed with numbers, I never do.. :)
That's why I always tell people to play by gut instinct and not by sliderule..
Sure, we all have to look up the odd chart occasionally to remind ourselves about something but don't become bogged down too much in hard facts and figures or you'll begin playing like a robot without any 'feel' for the game.
Remember in the film 'The Cincinnati Kid' a poker player carefully consults his mathematical charts to work out the chances before placing each bet, yet the Kid (playing by gut instinct without any charts) takes him to the cleaners.
Right Kid?

"Right"..

yeah, you posted that in the other thread. It so completely off-base I didnt respond before.
What does 'off-base' mean?
But mate, I've been playing by gut instinct nonstop for 4 years in 500 ladder games and it got me to the top of the Rugged Defense, Appui-Feu and Wargames-Player Club ladders at various times, so please let me know what I've been doing incorrect all this time?

PoorOldSpike Wrote:
Mate, don't get too obsessed with numbers, I never do.. Smile

...

I've been playing by gut instinct nonstop for 4 years in 500 ladder games and it got me to the top of the Rugged Defense, Appui-Feu and Wargames-Player Club ladders at various times,


You dont care about numbers like you dont care about ladder rankings

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